How to Stop Getting Ignored and Break Through the Clutter in Your Prospect’s Inbox

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Back in 2010 when I first got started with email marketing, I thought I knew what I was doing. I embedded a form on my site, offered something of value for free, and people opted into my list.

Overnight, I fancied myself a highly sophisticated email marketer. My list was growing steadily, I was converting prospects to customers, and my revenue steadily increased.

Damn, I’m so smart….or so I thought.

The problem I began having was that my email open rates (how many people opened my emails) started to decline.

Why did this happen? Because I was sending everybody on my list exactly the same stuff, without stopping to check in with them on what they were actually interested in.


Now that I have the benefit of hindsight, I can see that the huge mistake that I was making was that I wasn’t segmenting my list into groups of similar people.

The Power of Segmentation

If you are using your website to build a list of subscribers (prospects) and you aren’t segmenting them into groups, you are making a HUGE mistake. (If you aren’t yet even building a list, you are making an even bigger mistake!)

Assuming you want to create an engaged audience (and who would want a disengaged audience?), the reason segmenting your list is so important is that the only way to create engagement is to send out high quality content that is relevant to the wants, needs and desires of the people you are sending it to.

For example, if I was building a list by offering up a free training course on email marketing, some of the people on that list might be solo-preneurs just starting out, whereas others may be running a small company that is already doing email marketing and looking for ways to improve their results.


Do you think that both of these types of people (personas) would find value in exactly the same content?

Hardly. For the first group, they need the basics: how to set up and auto-responder, how to install a web form, etc…

If you sent basic information like this to the second group, what do you think would happen? You’d bore them to tears and they’d either unsubscribe or just ignore your emails.

The fastest way to kill your list is to send them content that is not relevant to their needs, wants, and desires.


ignore1When you don’t segment your list, you can’t send out content that is highly relevant and when your content is irrelevant, so are you.

Think about some of the lists you are on. Whose content do you value most? Why do you always open emails from these people?

Could it be that they seem to have a knack for always sending you content you find extremely helpful?

What do you do when their content ceases to be of value? At first, you probably just open fewer of the emails. Over time, if they don’t improve the relevancy of what they are sending you, chances are you are going to start regularly ignoring them, and, in the worst case (for them), you unsubscribe.


When you take the time to learn more about the needs, wants, and desires of your subscribers, and then send them ONLY content that fits with what they’ve told you about themselves, you are going to see all sorts of benefits.

First – and most obvious – is the fact that your open rates are going to remain higher than they would otherwise be. When you have high open rates, you have an engaged audience.

The next major benefit will be that your audience will have a much higher propensity to share you content on their social networks. As you might guess, the reason for this is simple: the more helpful your content is to your audience, the more likely they are going to want to share it with others.

In fact, if you really want to be a rock star, make your marketing content so good that people would want to pay you for it. This is something that New York Times best selling author Jay Baer outlines how to do in his new book, Youtility. (If you’d like to see how Jay made his book such a huge success, I suggest you read a post about Jay’s success that was recently published by past BrightIdeas podcast guest Michael Gass.)

The final major benefit is that a more engaged audience is much more likely to trust you, and with increased trust comes increased revenue.

Getting Started with Segmentation

Segmenting your list need not be difficult. In fact, if you follow a similar strategy to the one that I’m about to share with you, segmentation will actually be the natural by-product of your digital marketing strategy.


ask1The first step in segmenting your list is to determine your goals. In my case, I want to accomplish the following things:

  • Increased engagement
  • Increased social sharing
  • Increased revenue

Once you know your goals, you need to make a list of the things you want to know about your subscribers. What makes them different? What are they most interested in? What can they afford? What type of business are they in?

As you might guess, when you begin to learn this much about the people on your list, you can start to send them content that is a lot more relevant to their individual needs…and when you do that, your open rates (and subsequent conversions) can only go up.


In order to segment my list, I ask direct questions. I also pay very close attention to the behavior of my subscribers.

In fact, I probably place more value on my subscribers’ behavior (at least initially) than I do their answers to my questions. The reason I track behavior so closely is because I believe I can learn a lot about each person by paying attention to what they DO as opposed to what they SAY.


Whenever I ask a direct question, I am collecting external data. In my case, at the time of this writing, I ask my subscribers to answer the following four questions:

  • What are you struggling with most?
  • How much revenue does your business generate?
  • What kind of business are you in?
  • What do you want to learn about most?

When I have their answers, I have a much clearer idea of each of their needs, wants and desires.

The way that I collect this data is pretty straight forward. I put a web form under each video in my Conversion Tactics free training series.


Whenever a subscriber clicks a link, downloads a file or watches a video (etc), I track that activity. In other words, I pay very close attention to each subscriber’s behavior so that I can learn as much about them as possible. Armed with this data, I can actually adjust the frequency and type of messages I send to be better suited to their behavior. (I demonstrate this in a video later on in this post.)

Subscribers who are eager to watch everything unlock the next video right away; whereas subscribers that aren’t as engaged are reminded to take action several times, and then, as soon as they do act, the reminders stop.

This works so incredibly well that I often receive emails from new subscribers asking me how on earth I knew what actions they did (or didn’t) take!

(If you aren’t yet a subscriber and would like to see my marketing automation in action, become one now.)


Not every subscriber is going to be willing to answer my questions and fill in a form on my site. Some will be in a hurry, some won’t yet trust me enough, some simply choose to remain more anonymous.

Regardless of their reasons, it’s just not practical to expect to get 100% of my subscribers to answer every question I ask. It is possible, however, to offer them additional incentives to get them to fill in my web forms.

For example, in video #1 of my Conversion Tactics video training series, I actually tell my viewers that I’m tracking how much of the video they watch, and if they watch it all, I will send them an additional bit of content that I know they will find extremely valuable. (I know the types of things that ALL my subscribers want because I carefully target my audience.)

In my case, because I use as a platform to teach people about digital marketing strategy and marketing automation, the more transparent I am in my marketing funnel, the better my funnel actually works. The reason for this is that the vast majority of my subscribers are marketing consultants and they are looking to me to learn things that they can use to attract more clients for themselves – so much of what I’m “using on them” will actually work very well in their own funnels – and once they realize that, they become very engaged with my content.


Over the years, I have tested all sorts of ways to increase engagement with my audience. Of all of the things that I have tested, video is by far the most powerful tool for tracking engagement. There are several reasons why I think that video works so well in this regard.

First, when I put my face or voice on camera and then serve up that content to a new subscriber, they are going to be exponentially more engaged with me than if there were just reading a written post like this one. With video, they can see my face, hear my voice, watch my eyes and connect with me in ways that simply aren’t possible in a written post.

The other reason that I find video so powerful for tracking engagement is that I can actually track how much of my videos each subscriber watches and, depending on how much they watch, I can trigger additional automation to occur.


For example, in my funnel, if you watch 100% of each video (like I ask you to), then I’m going to send you the additional gifts that I promised you in each video. If you watch less then 100%, you don’t get the bonuses I talked about. If you click a link to watch a video and then don’t end up watching it, I treat you differently yet again.

In other words, by tracking how much of my videos you do or don’t watch, I can adjust the behavior of my automated campaigns.

Behavioral Marketing allows me to automatically adjust my marketing campaigns to match your behavior, creating a far more personalized experience with my brand.


A mid-funnel lead magnet is most often a free report that is offered to existing subscribers. Hubspot is among the best I have ever seen at doing this. The number of reports they offer for download to existing subscribers is nothing short of amazing.

Unlike the initial lead magnet whose goal was to capture the email address, a mid-funnel lead magnet’s goal is to tell me more about the things that my subscribers are interested in.

For example, if I offered up a free report on how B2B companies could generate more leads for their products and services, that would tell me quite a bit about what this subscriber is most interested in right now. Shortly after someone has downloaded this report, it would serve me when to send them to the sales page for The Best Buyer Formula (my training course on B2B lead generation).

Even if I didn’t have a product for sale to match that need, offering mid-funnel lead magnets is a very powerful tactic because people who are downloading a free report on lead generation (or whatever) are obviously quite interested in learning more about lead generation. If I didn’t have a product, I could either follow up with them to do some consulting, or – if I see that the report is downloaded often enough – I could create a product to match this need.

So rather than put up a web form that asks, “are you interested in learning more about lead generation?”, I could simply put up a form that said “enter you details to instantly receive a report on how to generate more leads”.

Regardless of whether I ask the question directly or indirectly, I’m still going to learn more about my subscriber and that is absolutely key to my being able to properly segment my list.

What To Do With Your Segments

Now that you have all this data about your subscribers, it’s critical that you put it to use, and there are plenty of ways to do this.


If you don’t yet have a library full of original content, the easiest and fastest way to leverage the knowledge you gain about each subscriber is to reach out and talk to them. When you engage in conversations like this, you are going to learn a great deal more about each subscriber, not to mention create a qualified sales opportunity.


One of my products is a mastermind group for marketing consultants and whenever I learn that a new subscriber is a consultant interested in growing their business, I make sure to give them the opportunity to go directly to my online calendar to book a time to speak with me about joining the mastermind group.  This approach works very well because by the time they actually get on the phone with me, each of my prospects has already been exposed to quite a bit of my content. My close ratio for these calls is north of 70% and the call they book is often the very first time I have ever spoken to them.


One of my past guests, Forrest Walden, CEO of Iron Tribe Fitness, reports even better results than mine. In his case, when a prospect comes into the gym for a face-to-face consultation, his trainers are able to convert that prospect to a customer 98% of the time!


Regardless of how much I know about some people, they might not be ready to buy something right now. This is something that I keep in mind whenever I’m building the follow up sequence that is triggered when a certain goal is achieved. (Downloading a free report is one example of such a goal.)

For example, if a subscriber clicks a link to register for a demo of Infusionsoft (the marketing automation software I use to create my funnels and run my business), I make sure that over the next few weeks they receive links to the many interviews that I have recorded with successful entrepreneurs who also use Infusionsoft in their business. That way, even if they don’t actually attend the demo, they are going to continue to receive helpful content from me for a few more weeks yet.

Remember, as Jay Baer suggests: make your content so good people would pay for it!



Regardless of the type of business you are in, at some point in time, you should give your prospects (subscribers) a chance to become a customer. When you segment in the way that I have explained above, you are exponentially increasing the odds that they will want to buy and I strongly encourage you to ensure that you regularly give them the opportunity to do so. Additional manual follow up, calendar appointments, and more automated follow up are just 3 examples of how you can do this.

Let’s Review

  1. Segmenting your list into groups of people with similar needs, wants, and desires is absolutely critical to maximizing results
  2. When you segment your list, you will increase engagement, get more social shares, build trust and generate more revenue
  3. If you don’t segment your list, you will burn your list out over time and lose subscribers
  4. The type of information you need to collect will be determined by your goals
  5. There are two types of data to collect and track: external and internal
  6. External data is what subscribers tell you when filling out web forms
  7. Internal data is what they do (links clicked, videos watched, files downloaded, etc…)
  8. Offering additional incentives will significantly increase the amount of external data you collect
  9. Make extensive use of video to increase engagement and track how much of each video is viewed
  10. Offering mid-funnel lead magnets is another very powerful way to segment your list
  11. Once you have segmented your subscribers, ensure that you only send them content that is highly relevant to their needs, wants and desires.
  12. Whenever you collect more data, be sure to offer your subscribers an opportunity to do business with you
  13. When you send highly relevant content, your audience will be more engaged, they will share your content and you will make more money
  14. For maximum results, automate, automate, automate (or just hire an army to work 24×7, but that sounds pretty expensive to me)

A Behinds the Scenes Look at How I Segment in my Funnel

In the video below, I’m going to share with you version 3.0 of my marketing funnel. This funnel contains the sequence of follow up emails that I send after someone opts into the top of my funnel. My goal with this initial campaign is to learn as much as I can about the needs, wants, and desires of my new subscribers so that I can continue to send them content that will be as helpful as possible; ultimately leading to their choosing to purchase one of more of my products.

The video below is just under 15 minutes long and is an excerpt from the the last Bright Ideas Mastermind Elite monthly meeting (hence why you hear some other voices). If you’d like to apply to become a mastermind member, click here.

If you’d like to learn more about Infusionsoft (the software I used in this video), you can register to get access to an on-demand webinar here.

Next Steps

If you found this article on segmentation helpful, go and become a VIP for my new book on Digital Marketing. As important as segmentation is, it’s just one of the digital marketing strategies you need to implement to become a  digital marketing maven (I cover the others in my book). Become a VIP today and you will receive 25% off the book on the day that it is released.

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Digital Marketing Strategy: Jermaine Griggs on How He Used Marketing Automation to Build a 7 Figure Online Business

Jermaine Griggs, 30, is a minister, musician, entrepreneur, and public speaker. Having grown up in the inner city of Long Beach with just his mom and sister, he always envisioned life on the other side of the tracks. At 16, he started Hear and Play Music, an instructional music company specializing in teaching piano by ear. With only $70, he bought the domain name and launched the company that would not only change his life but hundreds of thousands of musicians around the world through his books, DVDs, and online training courses.

Today, what started as a high school hobby has gone on to produce 8 figures in revenue since inception. More than two million aspiring musicians download his online lessons every year and over 301,700 loyal students receive his regular newsletters.

While in college studying Law & Criminology at the University of California, Irvine, Jermaine relied heavily on automated follow-up and marketing processes to run his business while he made good on a promise to his family to graduate school. What resulted was a unique automation strategy and philosophy that he follows religiously til’ this day.

As a result of his success and uncanny ability to mesmerize audiences, Jermaine started attracting the attention of the business world. He’s been featured on Msn, Yahoo, Kiplinger, D&B, Aetna’s Innovators, Msnbc, and more. In 2011, he was awarded Infusionsoft’s “Ultimate Marketer of the Year” and teaches entrepreneurs how to repeat his success by working smarter and not harder. He recently launched in 2012 as a place to share his marketing automation philosophies and strategies.

Having seen his company grow from a few hundred dollars a month into a multimillion dollar business without venture capital or loans, he now shares his inspiring story with young people and entrepreneurs all over the country. He’s been a mentor in organizations like Operation Jump Start, NAACP / ACT-SO, NCCJ, and speaks to school districts, churches, and youth groups regularly.

Listen to the Audio

Our Chat Today

  • What happens when a user opts into the funnel
  • An overview of how he uses negative tags
  • An overview of how he tracks how long people stay on a page
  • An overview of how he evergreens a product launch
  • How to do a broadcast to increase profits
  • How to ensure people aren’t receiving more than one email in a day
  • An overview of how he’s driving traffic
  • An overview of is custom dashboard and leadsources
  • An overview of how he’s using upsells
  • His advice on whether to focus on traffic or conversion

Additional Resources Mentioned


How to Test the Viability of a Niche Marketing Without Wasting Valuable Time and Resources

Once you’ve chosen your niche, I suggest you test that niche in the way that I’m about to describe before fully committing to it.

The reason for this is that I often see people putting a great deal of time and effort to building a complete website for their chosen niche before ever running any tests. As you might guess, pursuing the wrong niche can turn out to be a massive waste of time and resources.

To avoid what could be weeks or months of wasted time building the site, creating blog posts, and in promoting those posts, you can greatly minimize the risk of picking the wrong niche by putting up a few landing pages and then driving traffic to them.

In my book on marketing automation, I cover in detail how to create landing pages and lead magnets. What I will be covering in today’s post is quick and easy way to drive traffic to these landing pages so that in a very short period of time you can determine, with a high degree of certainty, if a given niche is worth pursuing.

Two Ways to Generate Immediate Traffic

There are two ways that I commonly use to drive traffic to a landing page in the shortest possible amount of time. While neither method is free, the cost of testing a niche using the method that I’m about to outline pales in comparison to the cost of putting weeks and/or months into pursuing the wrong niche.

Use Pay Per Click (PPC) Advertising

PPC can be a great way to test your niche. (image source:

PPC can be a great way to test your niche.
(image source:

Depending upon the niche you’re going after, you’ll want to try Google, Facebook, or LinkedIn paid advertising to drive traffic to your landing page. If your business is B2B, I would suggest that you use LinkedIn because you can target your ads very specifically.

If your business is B2C, I suggest you use Facebook for exactly the same reasons.

As a last resort you may also want to try Google Adwords; however I suspect you’ll find the costs are excessive when compared to either Facebook or LinkedIn; especially given the fact that you cannot target your audience nearly as well with Google as you can with the social platforms I just mentioned.

When using a PPC campaign to drive traffic to a landing page, you need to be aware that there are several variables that you’re going to need to test before you can determine if the experiment was a success or not.

Test Several Variables

The first variable that you want to test is the image in the headline of your ad. I would suggest that for the first part of this test you keep your headline consistent and use anywhere from 10 to 20 different images. Once you have identified the top performing image that I would suggest you test different variations of the headline.

After you are getting a satisfactory click through on your ads, you’re going to need to look at the conversion rate of your landing page. I cover how to split test the landing page in detail in my marketing automation book.

Direct Mail

Some niches will be easier to reach with direct mail than with PPC advertising. For these niches, I suggest you use three-dimensional direct-mail, otherwise known as lumpy mail.

Old fashioned mail is another great way to test a niche.. provided you use it the right way! (image source:

Old fashioned mail is another great way to test a niche.. provided you use it the right way!
(image source:

The reason that 3D mail works so much better than conventional mail is that the recipient of your direct mail will be pretty curious as to what is inside the envelope and, as such, the likelihood that they are going to open your envelope is substantially higher.

The costs of sending out 3D mail will, of course, be higher than the costs of sending out conventional mail or postcards; however, I believe that the increased response rate will be more than worth it. (And yes, you could actually split test this, too!)

When choosing a 3D object to including your mailing, I suggest that you find something that closely relates to the captivating headline you put at the top of the letter you are going to include in the mailing (you should also split test your headlines over time).

The more creative you are, the better your results are going to be, so be sure and put sufficient time and effort into coming up with

ideas for what you’re going to send before you reach into your wallet.

There are numerous suppliers from which to choose (Google the term “3d mail” or “lumpy mail”). The one that I am currently using is

In our case, the call to action in the letter is just the same as it would be with the PPC ad, and that is the landing page URL – which we personalize to the recipient.

How to Maximize Landing Page Conversions

To maximize conversions, we’ve built landing pages that are customized to each individual. On these landing pages we display a video was specifically created for the intended recipient. As we are attempting to test this niche’s appetite to outsource their marketing to our marketing agency, the video shows 3 to 4 minute review of their website. In the videos we identify the 5 to 7 critical factors that are wrong with their site, and share how each factor is costing them money.

As with all the marketing that I do, this strategy relies heavily on some ninja marketing automation tactics to increase its effectiveness. To be able to replicate what I’m about to explain you’re going to need to use Infusionsoft, and

Wistia is the company that I use to host the video, which I embed on the landing page. Producing the video takes less than five minutes. All I do is have a look at their site, make a list of the deficiencies, and then record the screen share where I introduce myself and explain what these deficiencies are and their negative impact.

This video is then exported to a dropbox folder, and, thanks to, it is automatically uploaded to the appropriate folder in Wistia. I then use to set up video tracking so that I can apply the tag in Infusionsoft if my prospect watches more than 75% of the video. (I chose 75% but you can pick any percentage you like.)

In each case, we have done our best to obtain a working email address for the prospect. The way that we do this is to go to their contact page and then view the source code to find an email address (search for “mailto:” and if an address is available in the code, you’ll find it). This is the email address that we use in their contact record within Infusionsoft as well as in the URL of the landing page. To mask what is now an ugly landing page URL, we simply create a “pretty link” (easy to type) that includes their name. To do this, you’ll need the Pretty Link plugin for WordPress.

Using Automation to Track Video Engagement

By taking this approach, when a prospect receives our lumpy mail and then visits the landing page that we have specified, if they watch more than 75% of the video we receive a notification from Infusionsoft.

The goal of the landing page is to get them to opt in and download our lead magnet – which is highly relevant to the niche. When they download the lead magnet, we will have captured their preferred email address and then an automated follow-up campaign begins in Infusionsoft.

The reason the video tracking is helpful is because if they do not opt in, we are still able to tell if our prospect visited the landing page and watched at least 75% (or whatever we specify) of the video.

If, over time, we see the videos are being watched and we are not capturing leads, we’ll know that our direct mail is effective at getting them to visit the landing page, however, the landing page is not effective at getting them to give us their contact details.


There are unlimited niches out there, but not all are good targets - pick wisely! (image source:

There are unlimited niches out there, but not all are good targets – pick wisely!
(image source:

As I hope you can now see, testing a niche using either of the methods that I have outlined above will give you immediate feedback on whether this is a niche that you can get traction with – and, best of all you will not have had to build an entire website.

It’s not enough to believe that a niche needs your help, or that they can afford to pay you for it. If you cannot acquire a customer at a cost that is less than your average customer value, you will not be in business long!

Moreover, if you really want to grow, you are going to need a system for attracting customers on a regular basis, as opposed to just getting one every now and again via personal relationships. Niche testing will tell you if this is likely to be possible.

If you succeed in getting traction using this test, then it is a good idea to dive in, build a site and begin creating and promoting your content on an ongoing basis as I describe how to do in my new book.

Digital Marketing Strategy: How Janette Gleason Used Infusionsoft to Triple Revenue and Cut Her Marketing Budget by 90%

Would you like to discover how to triple your sales, cut your marketing spending by 90% and work fewer hours – all at the same time?

Of course you would!

To discover how to one entrepreneur has done exactly that, I interview Janette Gleason in this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast.

When you listen to this interview, you will hear Janette and I discuss:

  • how they nearly went out of business before finally getting their marketing systems on track
  • what they changed with their marketing
  • how automation using Infusionsoft plays a large role
  • her 12 stage sales pipeline
  • and so much more…

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Watch Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:



Dyrsmid: Hi there, and thank you so much for joining me for this

episode of the Bright Ideas podcast. I’m your host, Trent Dyrsmid, and this

is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to learn how to

use marketing automation and sales automation tactics to massively boost

their business.On the show with me today is a woman by the name of Janette Gleason, and

her and her husband own a small tax and accounting firm. Now, a couple of

years ago they were spending about $15,000.00 a month on marketing, and

they nearly went bankrupt. Then, thanks to deploying a new piece of

software, called Infusionsoft, which has helped them greatly with their

marketing, not only were they able to cut that marketing budget by 90%, but

they were able to triple their revenue in the process, work less and get

more dinners at home together.If you’re a small business owner, and you’re struggling with marketing, and

you’re looking for some inspiration as well as some specific tactics and

tools you can use to massively boost your business, this is an episode that

you do not want to miss.Please join me in welcoming Janette to the show.Janette, thank you so much for coming on to do this interview with me and

talk about how you are using Infusionsoft to make your business so much

more successful. I really appreciate you making the time to be on the show

with me.Janette

Gleason: You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.Trent: For the audience who doesn’t know who you are, let’s

first of all give you an opportunity to just talk real quickly about what

your business is, and then we’re going to talk at length about how using

Infusionsoft has really helped you move the business forward.Janette: Okay. My husband and I own a financial planning firm in

Surprise, Arizona, and we our target clients are retirees, people who are

50 and older, and we do their financial planning, retirement planning,

income planning, and we also offer tax preparation services.Trent: Okay. In your space, in your area, is there a lot of

competition?Janette: Oh, yes.Trent: Plenty.Janette: My husband’s name is Joe, and we joke how we’re kind of like

the Starbuck’s. There’s a financial planner on every corner.Trent: If you had to guess, how well do you think your firm is

doing relative to that all the other “Starbuck’s” that are on the block?

Are you guys in the middle?Janette: Yes, I think we’re doing really well. We’ve really worked very

hard on building a good reputation. Always treating our clients with

respect and always doing what’s best for them and not what’s going to

always make us the most money, but what’s best for them and their

retirement. I think that reputation has served us well, and we get a lot of

referrals, and we stand out from the crowd that way.Trent: Okay, so you’re doing better than average?Janette: Yes.Trent: All right. You started using, and by the way I’ve gone

outside, and I don’t know if you can hear it or not, because if you can I

might have to reschedule this, but there’s a leaf blower and the

landscapers going right now, and for me it’s noisy as heck. Can you hear it

on your end?Janette: No, I can’t.Trent: All right, so that means none of the audience can hear it

either, so we’ll keep going.[laughter]Janette: Okay.Trent: You started using Infusionsoft in 2008. When we talked

before we went on the air, the first two years you weren’t exactly using it

“properly”.Janette: No, we weren’t.Trent: I want you to talk a little bit about that, because maybe

there are some people listening to this who are using Infusionsoft, and

they might be using it like you were using it before.Janette: Okay, yes. When we first got Infusionsoft, we were using it

basically as a glorified Roll-A-Dex; a place just to keep all the

information about our prospects and clients. We were using it for the

calendar feature and also as an email blast machine. Anytime we had a

holiday greeting or an event coming up, we would just send that email out

and the same email to everybody on our list. We thought our message was so

important that everybody wanted to hear everything that we had to say.Trent: Okay, and so for the people who don’t know what

Infusionsoft is, maybe you could just very quickly explain what it is,

because we both use it, and we both love it . . .Janette: Right.Trent: . . . but before I heard of it, you know, I didn’t know

what it was.Janette: Yes, well it’s the all-in-one sales and marketing software for

small businesses. To me there are three feature modules of Infusionsoft.

It’s the CRM module . . .Trent: What’s that? What does CRM stand for?

Janette: CRM stands for client relationship management.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: It’s a place for us to just keep information data about our

prospects and our clients. We know their names, addresses, email address,

phone numbers and notes anytime anybody comes in. We have records of their

appointments, all the emails that we’ve sent to them, and so it’s a place

for us to just keep a history of our interactions with our prospects and


Trent: Okay.

Janette: The second part of Infusionsoft is the marketing module, and

it’s not just email marketing. We don’t only have the ability to send

emails. We can do voice broadcasts and we can send letters, so we can use

it as a multimedia marketing tool.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: Then the third part of Infusionsoft is e-commerce. Typically

for the typical Infusionsoft user, the e-commerce is more for an internet

markets, or somebody who has a product to sell; a book or a widget, what

have you. We’ve actually adapted that module to be able to, one, collect

invoices and collect payments for the tax preparation that we do, but also

to track the commissions that my husband makes.

The clients don’t pay him directly for his financial services, the

financial institutions do, so we’ve been able to use it to track the return

on our investment on the marketing that we’re doing, and see the lifetime

value of our clients and see which marketing methods are working and which


Trent: Ah, that’s very, very important.

Janette: That’s it in a nutshell.

Trent: All right, so in 2008 you were using a Ferrari to take

the trash to the curb, we’ll say.

Janette: Exactly.

Trent: Then in 2011 you became one of Infusionsoft’s Ultimate

Marketer of the Year and 2011 finalists.

Janette: Yes.

Trent: There’s kind of a big gap between not having a clue what

this thing will do to really, really killing it, which is one of the

reasons, the primary reason, why I asked you to be a guest on my show.

Let’s start going through, well actually, let’s kind of get to the

conclusion. Now that you’re using it really well, how important is it in

the growth of your business? How tightly round into that marketing, lead

attraction, client acquisition . . .

Janette: Right, it’s the hub of everything we do. I tell people that I

don’t know how our business would survive without Infusionsoft at this

point. We’ve been able to centralize everything in our marketing, our

office procedures and systems, the sale process, our billing, everything is

in Infusionsoft.

It’s really an integral part of our business, and we were really struggling

a few years ago and didn’t know from day to day whether or not our doors

were going to stay open. We had Infusionsoft at the time. This was the time

we weren’t really using it correctly, and when the bills would come in,

we’d have our bills, and say, “What are we going to pay? We have this much

money,” and Infusionsoft was always number one on our list, because we knew

without it we would be done, and we’d have to close up shop.

Trent: Okay, wait a minute, I want to go back. In 2008, I don’t

know if you’re comfortable discussing revenue numbers that your firm does,

if not we can go about this a different way. Do you want to talk about

specific numbers at all, or should we just talk about percentage change?

Janette: Well, with the seminar marketing, I can tell you the marketing

cost was astronomical for us.

Trent: Yes.

Janette: We were spending $15,000.00 a month on direct mail, on hosting

these workshops, and in the beginning of 2008 we actually had two months in

a row where we were spending this amount of money having to use the line of

credit on our home and using credit cards to pay for this, because everyone

says marketing always pays.

Trent: Yes.

Janette: We kept doing this. We were kind of that one-trick pony that

used that one form of marketing, and for two months in a row it failed us.

That got us thinking that we need to market in a different way, and we need

to find software and companies that can support us in marketing in a

different way and give us different ideas.

In that year it was really tough, but it actually ended up being our best

year. We started doing some basic email marketing, and this was even before

Infusionsoft, and had the best summer that we ever had.

Then, in 2009, the economy tanked, and things went really south for us. We

just couldn’t afford paying lots and lots on marketing anymore. We went

from bringing in maybe $400,000 of revenue, down, cut in half.

Trent: Wow.

Janette: My husband’s commissions were cut in half. Our marketing

dollars were still increasing. Our rent for our office was increasing. The

cost of living goes up, but what we were bringing in was going down.

Trent: Okay, so that’s a pretty tough time. My very first

career, as I may have mentioned to you, was in your space, so I do

understand your business well, and $200,000 gross commissions coming in is

not enough to pay anywhere to all the bills.

Janette: No.

Trent: You were bordering on going out of business. You were

probably losing money at that point in time would be my guess.

Janette: Yes, we worked for free for a couple years. For nothing.

Trent: Yes.


Trent: What you’re saying is because you learned how to use

Infusionsoft – hello person in the background.


Janette: That’s Joe on his way to the office.

Trent: Okay. You learned how to use Infusionsoft, and now you’re

doing, and again I know what the number is, and you can say it if you want

to say it or not, but it’s a lot bigger than the $200,000 number.

Janette: Yes, definitely. In the high six-figures and really, onwards

and upwards.

Trent: Yes. All right, so hopefully for the listeners, if you’re

wondering at this point, “Why am I listening to this interview?” that’s why

I ask those questions, because I want people to understand that you’ve had

a profound change in your business as a result of your marketing practices.

I don’t imagine you’re doing those, well, I know you’re not because you

told me before, $15,000.00 a month seminars.

Janette: Yes. No.

Trent: You’re not doing those things anymore. Are you still

spending $15,000 a month? Now, your revenue obviously is a lot higher so

I’m sure you can afford to . . .

Janette: Right. No, the range we spend on marketing per month is

between $500.00 and maybe $2,000 a month on marketing.

Trent: Wow.

Janette: Advertising, sending out direct mail pieces. We’re much

happier with that.

Trent: That’s phenomenal.

Janette: Yes, a lot less stress.

Trent: From $15,000 down to $,1500, let’s call it, on average,

and yet your revenue is over three times what it used to be.

Janette: Yes.

Trent: Now, the economy, the markets, the stock markets, have

gone up and things are a little better, and I’m sure that doesn’t hurt your

cause, but still, I was in that business long enough to know that even if

the market is going up it doesn’t mean all these people are suddenly

running to your door, saying here take my money. It just doesn’t work that


Janette: Right. No, and right now they’re very gun shy because people

are really frozen right now with wanting to make financial changes.

Trent: I’ll bet.

Janette: We really have to focus on that trust-based marketing and get

people to trust us. Again, that’s where our reputation comes in, and the

type of marketing that we’re doing is more educational for our existing

database and our new prospects.

Trent: Okay. All right, here’s what’s coming up next in this

interview. We are going to talk about Janette’s sales funnel, we’ll call

it, the ‘life cycle of a lead’, and we’re going to talk about, as much as

time permits, what she’s doing to stimulate referrals.

Without me yapping too much, let’s just dive right into that. Let’s talk

about the life cycle of a lead. Describe what you do who don’t know who you

are or have somehow interacted with you to becoming a client, what happens


Janette: Okay. When somebody shows interest in working with us . . . do

you want me to get even before that?

Trent: Yes, because I’m going well how do they even know you


Janette: Right. Our lead attraction really comes from this tax base,

this base of tax clients we’ve built.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: Last year we did taxes for over 800 people, couples, in the

area. During that time, which used to be a lost leader for us, we used to

charge $49.00 per tax return as a way to get people in. Two years ago we

nearly doubled the price of our tax preparation, and now we’re up to $99.00

for the base price. Some extra schedules are additional fees.

In that process, when they come in, we have them filling out

questionnaires, doing some intakes, and we’re getting lots of information

about them. We legally can’t get it from their tax return. They have to

give that. We can’t use their tax return as a way to market ethically.

By giving them intake questionnaires and doing surveys after tax season,

we’re able to gather a lot of data from them. They give it to us

voluntarily, and we’re asking things about them, such as what worries you?

What concerns you about your retirement? Are you worried about outliving

your assets? Are you worried about paying for long-term care expenses in

the future? By asking these questions we’re finding out those

psychographics, what makes people purchase and what we should be focusing

on for our marketing.

A lot of people are concerned in retirement about having enough income that

will last them throughout their retirement and being able to leave a legacy

to their loved ones. A lot of our marketing, then, focuses on that


Trent: Okay.

Janette: We get them in as a lead for the tax preparation. We’re able

to capture their information, get to know them better through, again, those

surveys and questionnaires and just our interactions with them. After that

we do a lot of educating. When tax season is over and their taxes are

completed, we send out a whole sequence of emails that talk about tax

planning for their retirement.

From those emails we have links to articles and just educating them in the

same time about what we do, the services we provide and how we can help

them. When they are ready, when they’ve raised their hand that they would

like to come in and meet with Joe for that initial consultation, we put

them into our sales pipeline, which is over 10 stages long. We’ve really

thought about, what are the steps that the ideal person will go through as

they meet with Joe?

First they come in for an initial consultation, then the next stage, and we

have all this in Infusionsoft, we use the opportunity module to keep track

of this. After we have a new opportunity, our job then is to call and

schedule that initial consultation. During that initial consultation, we’re

gathering lots of information about them and getting that information into


Then, after that appointment, my husband does his research and planning and

puts together that financial plan for them in his recommendations. Then

after that we get them to come back in for what we call a second

appointment, or a recommendations meeting, where he presents a plan to

them. After that, they give us a thumbs-up or a thumbs-down, or the “I need

to think about it.”

We have tracks for people who say no, we have a track for people who say

yes, I’ll go ahead with this plan, and we also the a track for people who

are the “I need to think about it” we like to call them, the ‘undecided’s’.

Trent: What are the percentages when someone comes in for that

second presentation to receive the plan, what percent say ‘yes’, what

percent say ‘no’ and what percent say ‘I want to think it over’?

Janette: We have a really high percentage that say “yes”. I don’t know

the exact numbers. Joe, my husband, could tell you that better, but I would

say the people who come in and have gone through this process, we probably

have more than 50% chance, perhaps more than 75% chance of them becoming

our client. Those undecideds happen may 3. . .

Trent: A 5%?

Janette: Yes. Some people just say, “No, this is not for me,” and we

always give them that we want to make sure this is a good fit, that you’re

a good fit for us as a client and we’re a good fit for you as your

financial planner, but we have a whole sequence of not only emails, but

cards that we send.

We use send-out cards, and we’ve integrated that with Infusionsoft to be

able to send them a card with a little bag of maybe coffee grounds, and we

can say, “We know you want to think it over. Here, brew a cup of coffee,

and we’ll be here when you’re ready.”

Trent: Okay.

Janette: Then we continue on with educational emails and being in touch

with them that way.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: Go one.

Trent: I want to back up a little bit. This life cycle is, you

get a tax lead, they answer these questionnaires, you learn about them,

they start receiving emails, there’s a 10-step pipeline, they have an

initial consultation.

Joe does the research, they have a second meeting where the information is

presenting, and a large portion of the people say yes and become clients.

Let’s back up a little bit.

Where does Infusionsoft, and maybe you can describe how Infusionsoft is

used throughout the steps we just described.

Janette: Okay.

Trent: I want people to understand. It’s one thing to do all

this stuff, but it’s a totally different discussion to do it efficiently in

such a way that people don’t fall through the cracks and your labor costs

aren’t going through the roof because there are too many hands touching too

many things, and it’s all manual, and it’s not cohesive.

Janette: Right. Well, the cornerstone of Infusionsoft that helps us

with what we call our pipeline is the opportunity module. It’s the sales

pipeline, and you can identify the sales stages in a linear way. We know

that people can maybe jump over a stage, and they don’t have to always go

into each and every stage. Then we put all this on our dashboard.

When we log into Infusionsoft, we can see our dashboard, and we know these

three people are new opportunities. We need to get on the phone and call

them today. Then we can move them manually, but then all the automation

happens once we move them.

Trent: You move them manually by just changing a tag?

Janette: There’s a way to view the opportunities, and we can look at it

with the inline editor. There’s a way to hover over the stage so we can see

the person’s name, their phone number, what stage they’re in, and there’s a

little pencil that appears when you hover over it.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: You just hover over, it pulls up a drop-down menu, and we just

move them to the next stage, hit save, and then all the magic happens. All

the sequences we’ve built behind that happen behind the scenes.

Trent: Okay. Let’s talk a little bit about that magic, because I

know this is one of the areas where, for me, because my business is all on

line. I’m so fascinated because based upon the links people click, I can

alter the path they go down through the sales funnel. Let’s talk a little

bit about that for you. What happens in this magic?

Janette: When somebody goes into a stage, and we’ve built all this in

with the new campaign builder.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: We have all the stages going as our goal method. When you pick

a goal, you have to choose the goal method, and the goal method that we

choose is the opportunity stage movement.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: When I built this in Infusionsoft, that’s the goal method

maybe that we’re going into the research and planning stage. Then what

happens is we apply a note template to their record, and that’s one of the

first steps in this sequence. We tag them so we know that they’re in this

stage, and then we can maybe send them an email saying, “Thank you for

coming to meet with us.”

Or, have it come from Joe saying, “I’m really glad you were able to share

your retirement goals with me. I’m going to be working hard on putting

together a plan for you, and we’ll be in touch to schedule your next

appointment.” That’s kind of the magic in that particular stage that would


Trent: This is all, and I just want to make sure people

understand, it’s not like you’re sitting down and typing out this email.

You created it one time, but all this stuff happens on auto-pilot.

Janette: Yes. We created it once.

Trent: When you move them from one stage to the next, everything

else you just described after that, it just happens. Correct?

Janette: Exactly.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: We create it once, and then, exactly, it just happens behind

the scenes.

Trent: Correct, correct, so it’s a very consistent process is

what I’m really trying to drive towards. I think what a lot of, I know I

struggled with in my early years as an entrepreneur, is we’re so busy

chopping down trees, we don’t take time to come up with a plan to

effectively chop down trees.

Janette: Exactly.

Trent: Systems to chop down trees with the least amount of labor

because you’re just chop, chop, chop, chop, chop.

Janette: Right.

Trent: I’m hoping that people are getting from hearing this

interview an understanding that Infusionsoft can help them become so much

more efficient and turn the onboarding of a client, or the conversion of a

prospect to a client, into a very, very consistent process.

Janette: Right. Everybody who comes in or is indicating interest to

meet with Joe, everybody goes through the same steps and the same process.

It’s systematized, and that helps our office stay efficient and allows us

to really communicate in a very professional way to our customers. Then we

have less people falling through the cracks.

Before we had this system, people would say, you know in Arizona in the

summer it gets really hot – so a lot of our retirees, they leave. They go

north, they go back home, and they’re out of here. They might say in May,

“You know we’re interested, but we’re going back home, and we’ll be back in

November. Give us a call then.”

Maybe write it on a little post-it note and put it up, and it gets lost. We

would forget about that person. By the time they came back, we saw them the

next year to get their taxes done, and they had rolled that money with

somebody else. That really was an eye opening to us. We had a case where

somebody rolled $1 million with another firm.

Trent: Ooooh.

Janette: That lost revenue hurt. We could have really used that money

at that time. We used to get mad at those people and say, “Well why did you

do that?” and, “You’ve got the nerve to come back?”

Trent: It’s not their fault.

Janette: Yes, then we said, “It’s our fault. We weren’t keeping top-of-

mind awareness”, and we needed to figure out a way to do that.

Trent: Yes.

Janette: Now with this system, those people are falling through the

cracks anymore.

Trent: Okay. How’re we doing for time? We’re doing pretty good.

Let’s now shift into, because obviously we don’t have enough time on this

call to go into absolutely granulated details of ‘here’s how you do this

and do that and do the other thing’.

There’s an army of Infusionsoft consultants out there that will help people

do that. Infusionsoft has truckloads of training videos and a great support

team that will help you to figure all that stuff out.

Janette: Yes, they do.

Trent: That’s not the purpose of this interview. Let’s now talk

about when someone becomes a client, and I know from experience that when

you get a client, you don’t get all their money at the get-go. They have

money all over the place.

Janette: No.

Trent: You have a lot of selling left to do to collect all that

money? You may never get it all, but of course it’s the goal.

Janette: Right.

Trent: How are you guys using Infusionsoft to make sure a client

remains a client, clients refer other clients and clients bring you all

their money? Those are three very important steps, so let’s talk about


Janette: Yes. That’s really one of the most important things to us,

rolling out the red carpet to our new clients. Letting them know they’re

important to us, we value them, we know them by name, we know about their

interests, their families, and we’re able to use that using Infusionsoft.

One of the first things we do when they become a client, actually even

before that, the whole rollover, or the bringing the money over to our firm

has even completed, we welcome them as a client because this processing

stage can sometimes take six weeks to two months.

Trent: Weeks.

Janette: We’ve had it where people have changed their mind during that

time. It’s taking too long. Once that paperwork is done and we submit it,

we welcome them to our family of clients. We send them a gift. We send them

a card with a box of brownies.

We begin giving them our monthly newsletter that’s tailored for just our

clients. They really feel as part of our family. We do annual events. Last

January we held a Gold Rush Party. We started offering precious metals as

part of one of the services that we provide. We thought we’d blow this out

and let everybody know that we’re doing this by having a party.

We call it our ‘Gold Rush’, and we had everybody come out to a local

restaurant. We had line dancing instructors there. We had a good time. Joe

just gave a brief introduction and speech about what the changes are, and

all our clients were able to bring their friends. We asked them and said,

“We’d like for you to come to this event. The cost of admission is to bring

a friend with you.”

Trent: Perfect.

Janette: We had over 100 people come and half of them were brand new

leads for us, and we were able to get many of their friends to become

clients as well. We used Infusionsoft to send out emails and invitations to

track who had registered for the event and then a follow-up afterwards as

well to our clients and communicate differently to their guests that came

as well.

Trent: Fantastic. Do you happen to know of the 50 guests how

many have become clients?

Janette: I don’t know off the top of my head. I know we got one very

large client out of that event that more than paid for it. She actually

came back this week and is ready to invest more money with our firm.

Trent: Terrific.

Janette: Yes. You know, making it fun. Financial planning is not always

something you can tell your friends about.

Trent: Yes.

Janette: People are a little skittish about doing that. Being able to

make it fun, and offer coffee talk, come on over, we’re having an open

house. Bring your friends, and let’s just make this a fun and

nonthreatening way to get together and meet them.

Trent: I really want to keep tying in how Infusionsoft helps you

to streamline all this, is that a point you can speak to? Is there a bit

more detail you can give on what you just talked about and how Infusionsoft

supported that?

Janette: Definitely just keeping in communication and being able to

invite people to these events. Once that event is over, we can email them.

Sometimes at our events we have a sheet of paper that our guests can fill


Trent: Yes.

Janette: What are you interested in? They can check boxes. Based off

what they check, we follow-up with them in a different way.

Trent: Okay.

Janette: If they’re interested in tax preparation, well then we tag

them and we know next year we’re going to market to them when it’s time to

schedule our tax appointments. If they’d like to come in and meet with Joe

for a financial planning appointment, we can apply a note template and get

that ball moving, get them in as a new opportunity right into our sales


Trent: Okay, you said a phrase there that I know what you meant,

when you say you tag someone, I just want people to know what that is.

Infusionsoft at its heart is a database, and these tags are like sticking a

sticky note to someone to say, “This person is interested in blue, and this

person is interested in red, and this person is interested in red and


Janette: Exactly.

Trent: Infusionsoft’s automation oftentimes is very, very

tightly related to these tags, so when tags are applied, Infusionsoft can

then fire off a sequence of emails or actions or any number of things. I

just wanted people to understand that the tagging is not just like sticking

some little paper note on their file or typing something in.

Janette: This feature helps give our database, it helps it to live and

breathe. We can say, “Okay, I want to find somebody who’s this age, who has

this much in assets, who’s worried about this”, and I can pull up a list.

It might not be 1,000 people, but maybe it’s only 50, but I want to target

those 50 people and spend my marketing dollars on them because they’re much

more likely to respond to those marketing pieces we’re sending to them.

It’s laser focused.

Trent: That is a perfect segue into what I put a star beside in

list segmentation. At the beginning in 2008 you said you were using

Infusionsoft as an email broadcaster because you thought everybody would be

interested in everything you were saying, which is not the case.

Janette: Right. No people were opting out and we’d get spam complaints.

Trent: Correct.

Janette: When you spend all this money to build up a database, the last

thing you want them to do is opt out.

Trent: Correct. With Infusionsoft you can actually send them an

email, and it drives them to a form, and it says tell me what you’re

interested in, and they can fill in the little checkmarks and the dots, or

whatever, hit submit, and then Infusionsoft will apply those tags. You can

really allow your customers to self segment themselves.

Janette: Definitely.

Trent: The more information you collect, and I know that

Germaine Gregs with “Hear and Play” is the czar of tagging . . .

Janette: Yes.

Trent: My point is, the more tagging that you do, and I think he

uses like 9,000 tags or some ridiculous number like that, the more you can

laser target your list.

Janette: Yes.

Trent: I hope the people understand that if your message is

extremely relevant to your audience because you’re able to target so well,

what does that do for your conversion rate?

Janette: Oh, it goes through the roof.

Trent: Absolutely.

Janette: During the past year or so, we’ve really been collecting a lot

of data about our tax clients. Now we know, again, who has maybe more than

$250,000 in investible assets and who needs social security planning. Who’s

worried about social security? Now, when we have an idea to do a marketing

campaign of direct mail or email, a combination of the two, we’re able to

select just those people and send it just to them.

They’re not getting something in the mail, “Oh, why are they sending me

this about social security? It doesn’t apply to me.” It definitely speaks

to them, and we’ve been doing some lumpy mail and creative marketing

pieces, and it’s been a lot of fun, and our database has really been

responding well to that. That’s because we’ve been able to collect that

information, tag them, and segment our database. [phone rings] Sorry about


Trent: That’s okay. Let’s go back to before you go so good at

using Infusionsoft, and I kind of think I know what the answer to this is,

how much easier is your business to run now than it used to be and how much

less stressful is your business now than it used to be?

Janette: Oh, a lot less stress, and we’ve systematized so much that in

the years prior, during tax season, I never saw my husband. I never got to

see him. He was working. He got to the office before I even woke up, and

came home super late at night.

This last year we were able to have dinner together as a family most

nights. There might have been a night or two he had to stay late. One day

he came home, towards the beginning of tax season, and he said, “You know,

we’ve really got this systematized so much that I had some time in my

office today where I was looking around thinking, I don’t have anything to



Janette: That, to me, was so gratifying. He’s less stressed and I work

from home, so I’m not there in the craziness of tax season, but to be able

to have him come home and have those family dinners and not lose him for

four months out of the year has tremendously increased our happiness as a

family. Words can’t even express that.

Trent: Yes. I’m just kind of choking up as I’m hearing that

right now.

Janette: Yes.

Trent: I don’t know what better testament, and I know this is

sounding like a huge Infusionsoft commercial, but I’m a passionate user of

  1. It’s a monstrous part of my business, as it obviously is for yours. As

business people we’re always like how can I grow my business and make more


I don’t know that so often that “it’s making us happier”, and “we’re

getting more dinners together” finds its way into the discussion, but I’m

sure glad that you brought that up.

I’m sure there are some people listening to this, and I know I’m in that

camp, that we think that’s pretty darn important stuff.

Janette: Yes, definitely. The reason we wanted to be small business

owners was for freedom.

Trent: Yes.

Janette: For lifestyle, and then you get in the thick of it, and it

consumes you. You can’t go away for the weekend. You can’t go away for a

week because everything would fall apart. Now, having systems in place, we

know everything is still running even though we’re not there, and we’re

still nurturing our leads even though we’re not there on the phone with

them and having to remember all of these things. Sleeping better at night

and having more fun is definitely a big plus.

Trent: Absolutely. Did you guys ever read the book “E Myth” by

George Gerber?

Janette: Yes.

Trent: Is that kind of what got all this started for you?

Janette: Yes, more so for my husband than for me. I went to college,

and I became a teacher, so I was an elementary school teacher, and that was

my mindset. You get up, you work hard, and it was very stressful for me

once we started having a family that I couldn’t handle everything. I

couldn’t be a teacher and a good mom and a good wife. I gave up my career

while we had little ones.

Now being an entrepreneur allows me to still be mom, but also be able to

have my career and support my husband in his small business. My husband was

really good and showing me there’s a different way. He read the “E Myth”

book a long time ago.

Trent: Okay. For those of you who haven’t read it, if you’re an

entrepreneur listening to this, and you’re chopping down trees all day long

every day . . .

Janette: A couple of weeks ago, I had the absolute pleasure of getting

to meet Michael Gerber at an event. He was the keynote speaker, and I

presented on a panel that day. I got to meet him and sit next to him, and

that was such a treat for me.

Trent: Yes, I’ll bet. I think I called him George, didn’t I? My


Janette: I think so. Yes, Michael.


Trent: It’s a long time ago that I read it, but it had a

profound impact on me, as well, when I was running my last technology

company. I was ‘Hammered Home’, systems operation manuals, documented

procedures, and it really does set you free. I’ll just finish on this.

If you’re running a business, and you’re busy doing all this stuff

yourself, and you think I don’t have time to create that, I would encourage

you to go ahead and get his book and read it, and he may change your


Janette: It changes everything.

Trent: It does. Okay, we’ll wrap it up here Janette. Thank you

so much for making some time. . .

Janette: You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.

Trent: . . . to share what’s working for you in your business.

For those of you who are Bright Ideas members who are listening to this,

whether you’re a premium member or not, thank you very much for being a

member. Without you I don’t have a business.

For those of you who are premium members, plenty more master classes are

coming your way so. Thanks very much everybody. We’ll talk to you again


All right, if you want to get the show notes for today’s episode, all you

need to do is go to The other thing I wanted to mention

to you is if you go to, you’re going to get

access to my Massive Traffic Toolkit.

What’s that all about? All the smartest traffic generation experts that

I’ve interviewed here on Bright Ideas have contributed to the Massive

Traffic Toolkit. The really great thing about this tool kit is all the

strategies that they have proven to work are easy to replicate, and you

don’t have to be some SEO ninja guru to do it.

To get free access to that, just head over to

I want to finish off and ask you a small favor. If you would go to iTunes

and give the show a five-star rating and leave some feedback, that would be

a really huge favor. It helps get the show out in front of more eyeballs,

and the more people that become aware of it the more people we can help

here at Bright Ideas.

Thanks very much for tuning into this episode. I’m your host, Trent

Dyrsmid, and we’ll see you in the next episode.

Here are some of the things you’ll discover in this episode:

How to Use Infusionsoft to Create a Laser Targeted Marketing Campaign that Cuts Down Marketing Costs by 90% while Tripling Revenue

An old adage that most entrepreneurs adhere to states that “Marketing always pays.” This is an oversimplification of how things really are. When entrepreneurs don’t know how to market their businesses, products and services efficiently, they tend to waste a lot of time, energy and financial resources that don’t quite increase revenue. Watch the episode to hear Janette talk about how she and her husband Joe cut their marketing budget down by a whopping 90% while tripling their revenue, all with the help of Infusionsoft.

Of course, there are always going to be some pitfalls. Janette and Joe experienced many during their first couple of years in business as they worked for free just to make ends meet. In 2008, they were already using Infusionsoft but they were not using it properly, to say the least. Janette recalls that in the beginning, they were using Infusionsoft as a glorified Rolodex. Janette took it upon herself to discover and take advantages of the many features of the software, and it was only three years later that she became a finalist of the Infusionsoft Ultimate Marketer Award. That’s a pretty impressive achievement.

Learn what Janette’s secret is and how she used the features and the capabilities of Infusionsoft to pull this off.

With the use of the automated systems that they have developed for their marketing processes, Janette and Joe brought their company to new heights. Back in 2008, they really didn’t know if they were going to stay in business long. The price of their old direct marketing strategy was already about $15,000 and growing but their revenue was shrinking. And, Joe’s commission had already been cut in half. This was about the time that they decided

Automated systems helped slash Janette’s marketing budget.

Image source:

that they needed to do things differently. They discovered email marketing and the full potential of Infusionsoft to solve their marketing dilemma.

With the automated system in place, they were able to slash their marketing costs from a staggering $15,000 to a very manageable $1,500. During the process, they not only cut down their marketing spending, they also tripled their revenue.

Janette describes her strategy in detail, and it’s clearly something that can be replicated by others.

Listen to this interview to learn how you too can cut down on marketing time and money.

Janette and Joe’s company, the Gleason Tax Advisory Group, now enjoys very healthy revenues from $200,000 up to the high 6 figure range.  Janette credits their strategically targeted marketing. Listen to the show to discover her formula for an efficient and targeted marketing campaign.

She also reveals the life cycle of a lead within their financial consulting firm. She details how their firm treats their clients to build trust. Trust is the real key to success in this business, and the success of their business is proof that they are well trusted and even beloved by their clientele. Learn the little things that they do to add something special to their marketing campaign.

Listen to the show to discover how Janette and Joe get new clients and how they keep them loyal over time.

Janette details how they created the process that systematized all of their marketing. This system runs in autopilot, nurturing leads and communicating with clients on a consistent basis. This allows their company to stay in touch with leads and opportunities that would otherwise fall

Unique marketing, like coffee and brownies, made Janette and Joe memorable to their customers. Image source:

through the cracks. If you are having a hard time keeping in touch with your leads, you’ll want to hear all the goods on creating a targeted, personal marketing system with far less time and effort.

Your clientele need to be treated well in order for them to want to continue to give you business. The Gleasons have perfected this with their uniquely effective marketing and referral methods. A box of brownies, a packet of ground coffee and a referral dinner party are all things that the Gleasons have incorporated in their marketing campaign, to excellent effect.

Listen as Janette explains how they managed to incorporate these clever and highly effective marketing strategies to boost their relationships with current clients and generate new clients in the process.

Janette’s targeted marketing is key to her success.

Image source:

Classifying and segmenting your clientele is a crucial step to creating the best targeted marketing that will work wonders for your business. Before you can tag and segment your customers, you first need to solicit information from them. Listen as Janette describes her own method of collecting freely-given information from her clients. She then explains the tagging and segmenting procedures that help create a laser-targeted marketing campaign. In the end, Janette is clear that their products and services that are offered to the right people.

If you want to learn more about target marketing to your current clients, you’ll want to hear Janette’s experiences.

About Janette Gleason

Janette went to Augustana College and majored in Elementary Education and Spanish. She received the Sam’s Club “Teacher of the Year Award” and taught education professionals how to use technology in their classrooms. Janette stepped back from her teaching career to raise her children and to help her husband build his financial planning and tax preparation firm, where she is Janette-Gleason-236x300currently the Director of Marketing.

Janette had the honor of being a finalist in Infusionsoft’s Ultimate Marketer Contest 2011. Janette continues to share her success story by speaking at various events such as Infusionsoft’s Success Course, training events/webinars for service professionals, and national marketing conferences.

Before their new marketing system with Infusionsoft, Janette rarely saw her family because she and her husband Joe were just too busy with work. In her free time, she loves to scrapbook, sew, travel with her Joe, and spend time with their three young children.





Infusionsoft Tutorial: How to Automate Abandoned Shopping Cart Recovery

The average documented online shopping cart abandonment rate is a whopping 67.75%. Here’s one way to fix it.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guide67.75% is a massive abandonment rate. Just think about how much that translates into in terms of lost profits. Next, add to that the amount of lost profits that result from your not having the opportunity to generate upsells and repeat sales to the (potential) customer that abandoned the cart in the first place.

Abandoned shopping carts is a huge problem for every online retailer. Thankfully, with some smart automation, you can reduce the number of carts that don’t complete checkout.

Thanks to Infusionsoft, recovering abandoned shopping carts need not be as manual or inconsistent a process as you might think.

How to Automate Shopping Cart Recovery

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done using Infusionsoft.

Helpful Hints

  • Ensure that you apply a tag every time a subscriber clicks a link to a sales page
  • Put all these types of tags into a category called Pre-Sales so don’t miss any of them
  • Regularly look at your campaign stats so that you can see which emails are sending the most traffic to your sales pages and then review the copy in these emails
  • Manually follow up with people that have abandoned carts if your automated follow up didn’t work. Get them on the phone and ask them why they abandoned the cart. Don’t try to re-sell them. Just ask why they abandoned in the first place so you look for trends that you can fix.

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Infusionsoft Tutorial: How to Create Top of Mind Awareness with a Newsletter Campaign

Are you top of mind with your customers and prospects? Are you regularly sending them educational content to ensure that you are?

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideIn an era where our prospects and customers are continually bombarded with marketing ‘noise’, staying top of mind can be a challenge. As a result, it is absolutely critical that you are regularly sending your prospects and customers high quality, educational information to keep them engaged – as well as to position your firm as an authority.

One of the very best ways to do this is with a high quality newsletter delivered via email. When done correctly, your list will remain engaged and will share your message, and you will remain top of mind for the products and services that you provide.

Using Infusionsoft to Automate Newsletter Delivery

Thanks to Infusionsoft, delivering a high quality newsletter need not be as manual or inconsistent a process as you might think.

In fact, by using the campaign that I show in the video below, your newsletter will never skip a beat!

Automate Newsletter Delivery

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done using Infusionsoft.

Helpful Hints

When it comes to creating an eNewsletter, there are a few critical success factors that you must get right. They include:

  • Just start…and then improve as you go
  • Split test your subject lines to maximize your open rate
  • Deliver only high quality educational information
  • Keep sales messages to less than 15% of the content
  • Create an editorial calendar to plan your content in advance
  • Stick to a consistent schedule so you can ‘train’ your list to expect your content
  • Feature other experts in your content so they will also share it with their tribe
  • Segment your list to increase engagement
  • Use trackable links

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Infusionsoft Tutorial: How to Automate Sales Opportunity Management

Do you use sales reps to close deals? Would you like to gain more visibility into their activity so you can improve their performance?

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideWith a marketing funnel, automation is fairly straight forward. You create the funnel, and then your new subscribers flow through it. If you’d like to watch a video that shows more detail on funnels, check this one out. (to experience the Bright Ideas funnel, become a subscriber here)

So if the funnel automation is pretty straight forward, what about the part where your sales reps actually start to engage directly with your leads? How are you supposed to maintain consistency and ensure that nothing falls through the cracks?

This is where things can get a bit trickier to manage if you don’t have a well defined process in place. Without a process, each of your sales reps may be guiding a lead through your sales pipeline is very different ways and this type of “wild west” approach makes measuring and improving nearly impossible to do.

Using Infusionsoft to Automate Sales Opportunity Management

Thanks to Infusionsoft, managing sales opportunities need not be as manual or inconsistent a process as you might think.

In fact, with a little forethought and creativity, you can actually ensure that there is a consistent process for how all your sales opportunities are managed!

Automate Sales Opportunity Management

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done using Infusionsoft.

Helpful Hints

When creating a sales opportunity skeleton, ensure that you don’t get so focused on adding in the details that the overall process becomes unusable for your sales team.

Instead, focus on creating a skeleton that will allow for the customization needed, while still giving you the insight into your rep’s activities so that you can identify areas where improvement is needed.

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How Aweber is Losing You Customers: The Big Picture of Aweber vs Infusionsoft

I’m often asked by people that are unfamiliar with Infusionsoft if they should pick it, or Aweber for their email marketing. What these people fail to understand is the magnitude of the differences between these two applications.


Aweber VS Infusionsoft: It’s Not Even Close

Comparing the two is like comparing a Porsche to a tricycle. With Aweber, you can do very basic email auto-responders, and nothing more, whereas with Infusionsoft, you can run your entire business; marketing, email, CRM, online shopping cart, affiliate program, and so much more.

So, with all that said, let me begin by giving you my opinion: Infusionsoft is a game changing application, and, by comparison, Aweber is just one tiny piece of the overall picture.

So, with that said, here we go…

Back when I first started my business with a list of subscribers, I chose a company called Aweber for my email marketing provider. They are well known and it only costs $1 to get started on a trial. If you like the software, you have to pay only $19 a month for up to 500 subscribers.

If you are just starting out with email marketing, Aweber is as good a choice as any; however, as your business grows, you are going to eventually run into some serious limitations and then, if you decide to change providers, the pain of change can be quite a burden.

In this post, I’m going to compare the two applications as well as to take a deep dive into why I made the switch from Aweber to Infusionsoft.


Aweber’s product has been designed with a single goal: broadcasting and automated email follow up.

They are not a CRM tool, they don’t offer a shopping cart, or anything else that Infusionsoft provides. They just do automated email follow up, so if that is all you need, Aweber will work just fine.


  • Low cost ($19/month for up to 500 subscribers)


  • Limited features (no functionality beyond sending emails)
  • Limited customization (you have to use double opt in and you are forced to have a named list for each of your segments, which as you will see when I explain how Infusionsoft works, really sucks)
  • List segmentation is hard (segmenting your list is extremely important and the way that Aweber does this is really a challenge because the only way to get a subscriber onto more than one list is to get them to opt in again which causes extra work for your subscriber)

The Biggest Drawback of Aweber: Multiple System Chaos

Aweber is a very simple application that does one thing very well – hence the short list of pros and cons. However, I have saved the biggest drawback of Aweber for last…and that is this: If you use Aweber, you will suffer from Multiple System Chaos.

As Aweber only does one thing, you are definitely going to need other systems to handle the other parts of your business that are shown in the image below. Do you really want to have to deal with that? I sure don’t!

With Aweber, you will be forced into using multiple systems and the more you have to use, the more complex your business will be

With Aweber, you will be forced into using multiple systems, and the more systems you have to use, the more complex your business will be

Infusionsoft: The Solution to Multiple System Chaos

In preparing for this post, I came across a number of other reviews that restricted themselves to comparing these two (extremely) different applications on a feature by feature basis, and in doing so, they completely missed the (very important) bigger picture!

I am a talented marketer, however, I am not the most technical person in the world and couldn’t write a line of code to save my life. For people like me, this means that using multiple systems will either result in lots of manual work (lame!) or the need for developers to write lots of code which can be a huge challenge as it requires a talented developer and a budget to pay for them.

Infusionsoft eliminates the need for multiple systems because not only does it do email marketing, but it is also my CRM system, my online shopping cart, and my affiliate program – all in one. As you are going to see in the remainder of this post, the integration of these 4 pieces is absolutely critical to your success.

Stop and Look at the Big Picture

Before I dive into all the reasons why I am such a fan of Infusionsoft, I’d like to draw your attention to the bigger picture. No matter what type of business you are in, there are some pretty important things that all businesses have in common. These things include:

  1. Attracting interest
  2. Capturing leads
  3. Nurturing prospects
  4. Converting prospects to customers
  5. Delivering your product
  6. Upselling and repeat sales
  7. Getting referrals
Infusionsoft was designed to support every step of Lifecycle marketing

Infusionsoft was designed to support every step of Lifecycle marketing

In a nutshell, this 7 step process can be referred to as lifecycle marketing and Infusionsoft has been designed from the ground up to support you in every single step, whereas Aweber at best will only support you with steps 2 and 3.

Keep reading, and I will, by way of example, show you why this is such a big deal.

Attracting Interest

Here at, we attract interest with our content – which normally consists of blog posts, videos, and podcasts. Neither Infusionsoft or Aweber really play a part in this step, so, while the concepts are extremely important, for the purposes of this post, we don’t need to talk much about it.

If you would like to learn more about how to attract interest, check out our Lifecycle Marketing Guide.

Capturing Leads

Capturing leads is generally done with what is called a lead magnet, which, most often is a free piece of content that is given away in exchange for someone’s email address.

In my case, the lead magnet is the Conversion Tactics Toolkit, which is a 4-part video series on how to maximize conversions.

Both Infusionsoft and Aweber make building a web form (the thing that goes on your website to collect their name and email) pretty darn easy as they both have form building wizards that don’t require any technical skill at all. Just drag and drop form elements until you have a form that looks how you want. Below is a screenshot of a form that I use to begin segmenting my list.

the form below the video was built in the Infusionsoft form builder. Aweber can do the same.

the form below the video was built in the Infusionsoft form builder. Aweber can do the same. Want to see my segmenting in action? Subscribe to my list at

Nurturing Prospects

Once you’ve captured a lead, what you do next is going to make a massive difference to your results, and it’s where most people really screw up.

Here’s what most people do: they begin sending the exact same sequence of emails to every single person that subscribes. Bad Dog!!!

I literally cannot stress enough the importance of segmenting your list. Why on earth would you send the same content to everyone? The needs of each of your subscribers differs greatly, so why would you send everyone the exact same content? You wouldn’t!

If you don’t segment your list, your email open rates will suffer and your unsubscribe rate will be much higher. From a marketing perspective, creating a Youtube video of your cat would be more effective :)

Infusionsoft Makes List Segmentation Easy. Aweber Makes is Really F$%@# Hard!

With Aweber, you must have a completely different list for each series of emails that you want to send. There are a number of challenges with this.

First, each list has to be a unique name that is not used by any other Aweber customer! (read that sentence twice to ensure that you really understand it)

That is just crazy…plus it makes naming your lists much more challenging than it need be.

Second…and this is even worse than the above, is that to get a subscriber from one list to another, you must get them to opt in again and that is going to mean more work for your subscribers.

Guess what that will mean for you? Fewer of them will bother, and as a result, your list will not be as well segmented as it could be.

Lack of Segmentation = Lack of Profits

With Infusionsoft, I don’t need to have separate lists; each with unique and hard to decipher names. Instead, all I need to do is apply something called a tag to a contact record…and, I can name that tag anything I like so that when I look at it later, it will be extremely easy for me to remember what it’s for.

Here’s a few examples of some of the tags I use (I have hundreds of them)

  • Clicked link to MobiLead Method sales page
  • Clicked link to [name of guest] interview
  • Bought [name of product]
  • Registered for [name of webinar]
  • Attended [name of webinar]
  • etc…

Essentially, a tag is like a little sticky note that I use to “stick” to anyone based upon something they click, watch, buy, or do.

Applying a tag is done automatically and can be applied in any of the following ways:

  • Subscriber clicks a link in an email
  • Subscriber fills out a web form
  • Subscriber buys a product
  • Subscriber flows through a campaign sequence

Tagging is unbelievably powerful and I could devote an entire post to it. The thing that I want you to understand here is that a tag can be applied without the need for a user to fill out another web form, so that means that I can make it extremely easy for a subscriber to be tagged based on their actions, or in the case of applying a tag as a part of a campaign sequence, I can apply a tag without my subscriber doing anything at all.

And yes, I can remove tags in the exact same way.

Tags in Action: A Practical Example

Ok…just in case this whole tagging thing isn’t really making sense, it’s so important that I want to give you an example as it pertains to nurturing a prospect.

When I capture a lead via a web form, I can tell Infusionsoft to apply as many tags as I like. At a minimum, I apply a tag that adds them to my newsletter list. I also apply a tag for the date they subscribed.

After they complete the web form, I direct them to another page with a video and another web form (shown in the screenshot further up in this post) and then more tags are applied to tell me that they have segmented themselves and what their occupation is.

Now they might, depending on which segment they are in, begin to receive a series of emails inviting them to a webinar. For this example, let’s say that there are 3 emails to be sent. If they click the registration link in the fist email, they do not receive the second and third email. If they don’t click the link in email #1, they will receive email #2, etc…

With Aweber, this is impossible. With Aweber, if someone is added to a list, they receive every single email that is a part of that list’s sequence unless your subscriber goes and fills out another web form, in which case you can remove them from list #1 and add them to list #2, or, you can have them on both lists.

With Infusionsoft, I might ask them to fill out a web form to apply/remove a tag, but I don’t have to as I could just as easily use any of the other methods that I have described above.

This one bit of functionality is incredibly powerful and it would take me far more than just this blog post to point out all the ways that this can be used.

To show tagging in action, let’s continue with this example…

Converting Prospects into Customers

Now that my subscriber has told me their occupation, Infusionsoft will send them a sequence of emails with links to product offers and content that are highly relevant to that occupation.

More Relevant Content/Offers = More Profits

Let’s suppose that this product offer sequence has 10 emails in it. If my subscriber clicks the link to the sales page in email #4 and buys the product, Infusionsoft will apply a tag that says something like “bought product A” and Infusionsoft will then immediately stop the 10 email sequence and will now start another sequence of emails that was designed specifically for buyers of product A (assuming I created a campaign to follow this logic).

Key Take Away: most people need to be reminded a few times to register for a webinar or buy a product, so with Infusionsoft, I can create multiple email sequences that will stop as soon as the user takes that action that I want them to…even if there are more “reminder” emails in that sequence. This one feature alone is hugely valuable as it increases revenue while avoiding sending too many emails to people who’ve already taken the desired action.

In the product A buyer sequence, I can do anything I want. Here’s a few examples:

  • Ask how they like the product
  • Ask for referrals
  • Send upsell offers
  • Automatically register them for a webinar
  • Start another campaign

Focus On Your Hottest Leads

Lead Scoring is another feature of Infusionsoft that is incredibly powerful because with lead scoring, you will always know who your hottest leads are at any given time, simply based upon which tags have been applied.

So, supposed a subscriber clicked on a link to a sales page from an email that they received as part of a campaign they are in. When that link is clicked, the tag is applied, and then, as you can see below, a lead score can be increased (or decreased) for a given period of time.

A contact's lead score can be automatically adjusted whenever a tag is applied.

A contact’s lead score can be automatically adjusted whenever a tag is applied.

Within Infusionsoft, leads a scored using a simple scale of 1 to 5 flames and, if you are creative in how you build your campaigns, you can trigger further automation that is starts when a lead score moves from 1 to 2 flames, or from 2 to 3 flames, etc…

Why do this? Don’t you think people with 5 flames should be paid attention to? I sure do!

This cannot be done with Aweber.

Create Lists on the Fly

From time to time, most businesses want to offer some kind of special promotion or discount on one of their products. Thanks to all the tagging that I do with my subscribers (remember, I apply tags for virtually everything my subscribers do/see/click/attend), I can very easily create a list of potential buyers based upon any criteria that I like. For example, I can easily create a list of invitees for a webinar that would appeal to only a portion of my entire audience and then send invites to only these people.

In both cases, all I would need to do is to run a query against my database that looking something like this:

Show me all the contacts who:

  • Subscribed between this date and that date
  • Have clicked the link to my MobiLead Magnet sales page
  • Have attended at a particular webinar
  • Who are not yet MobiLead Magnet customers

Hopefully, you get the idea. With tags, I have unlimited power to create a list of suitable contacts and then send them an offer anytime I want.

This is impossible to do with Aweber.

As I hope you are starting to realize, applying tags is an incredibly powerful and easy way to segment your list and Aweber simply cannot do this. It’s just not built that way…plus, it won’t tie into your online shopping cart unless you buy more software or hire a programmer.

With Infusionsoft, this is all done via the visual campaign builder. Below is a screenshot of a campaign created to recover an abandoned shopping cart. Tags and automation are the key to making this work.

This is a screenshot of a campaign created in Infusionsoft's campaign builder to recover an abandoned shopping cart. Tags are the key to making this work.

This is a screenshot of a campaign created in Infusionsoft’s campaign builder to recover an abandoned shopping cart. Tags are the key to making this work.

As I said earlier, Aweber does not have a shopping cart, so, without hiring a programmer, this type of integration will be impossible to do.

Delivering Your Product

So, now that you’ve collected the money via Infusionsoft’s online shopping cart, you actually have to deliver the product or service.

If your product is digital, you can have Infusionsoft automatically send out an email with a download link. This is easy as pie.

If your product is physical and is shipped by a fulfillment partner, you can have your campaign send a message to your fulfillment partner’s server and the order will be fulfilled automatically after the order is placed. This means you don’t have to do order fulfillment and and instead can be off doing something else…like say…sipping a margarita on your patio or playing with your kids :)

If your product is shipped by you or your staff, or you have sold a service of some kind, you can tell Infusionsoft to assign tasks to you are anyone else on your team. You are only limited by your imagination.

Did I mention that Infusionsoft has a CRM component? Well, it does, it’s a fantastic tool!

You can pull up any customer record you like and see a summary of all their tags, their orders, the campaigns that are running, the emails they’ve opened, and anything else you could ever want….and it’s all in one place…which means no more wasting time searching through multiple systems for the data you need!

This is the summary view. Clicking the icons provides much more detailed information about each contact.

This is the summary view. Clicking the icons provides much more detailed information about each contact.

Upselling and Repeat Sales

Unless you have only one product, or you like to continually look for new customers, upselling your customers to generate repeat business is a very good idea.

The reason for this is obvious: you don’t have to incur the expense of finding a new customer, so your net profit per transaction will be much higher than if you did.

With Infusionsoft, you can put product upsells on auto-pilot, and when you do, it will make a massive difference to your bottom line.

For example, 26% of the people the buy The MobiLead Method (now the Best Buyer Formula) decided to buy the first upsell, which is a bundle of done-for-you content. In addition to that, 6% of the people that bought The MobiLead Method also decided to buy the MobiLead Magnet, which is a WordPress plugin that I built to be used with the course.

If, during the checkout process (which is handled by Infusionsoft), someone doesn’t purchase one of the upsells, I could very easily create additional sequences to make additional offers down the road, and it would all happen on auto-pilot.

You cannot do this with Aweber.

Getting Referrals

Back when I ran my last company, Dyrand Systems, we got a lot of business from referrals from our existing customers. This happened because we did two things right: we delivered a premium service that our customers loved, and then we asked them to refer us to other people.

Back then, the asking part was a manual process that was done by our account managers.

Thanks to automation, identifying your happiest customers and then asking them for referrals can now be done completely on autopilot.

The NPS survey tells Infusionsoft who is most happy and then sends them an email with a request for a referral.

The NPS survey tells Infusionsoft who is most happy and then sends them an email with a request for a referral.

With Aweber, you cannot do this on auto-pilot.

Final Thoughts

While extremely capable, Infusionsoft does have a few draw backs.

First, it is much more expensive that Aweber. Depending on what promotions Infusionsoft is running at any given time, the software requires an up front investment of $1,500 to $2,000 and then costs between $219 and $379 per month. Aweber starts at just $19/month. But remember…do you want a tricycle or a Porsche?

If you are struggling with justifying the price, I would encourage you to check out the many Infusionsoft success stories and tutorials that I have published. In each, you will hear an entrepreneur describe how Infusionsoft has had a huge impact on their business.

The other drawback with Infusionsoft is that the application, due to its much vaster array of capabilities, requires more learning to attain proficiency. The good news is that Infusionsoft’s free training material is excellent, as is their support department. Plus, their new visual campaign builder has dramatically simplified the user experience. When people see the campaign builder for the first time, their response is generally something like “wow!” or “that is totally awesome!!”.

In addition to these two resources, there are also an army of Infusionsoft Certified Consultants who would be happy to assist you. My wife being one of them :)

Obviously, no system is perfect and prior to choosing which one is right for your business, a thorough investigation must be done. Hopefully, if you are trying to decide if you should choose Infusionsoft or Aweber, this post has been helpful to you.

If you have additional questions, please use the comment form below and I promise to provide you with a prompt answer.

Additional Resources

If you are a marketing consultant or run a marketing agency and are thinking of purchasing Infusionsoft, I’d like to let you know that if you use my affiliate link, I can have Infusionsoft give you a copy of a full campaign that I created just for agencies. You can see this campaign here.

In addition, I have also created an extensive library of tutorial videos and interviews with highly successful Infusionsoft users that you will likely find incredibly valuable.

And finally, if you have questions, please contact me directly.

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How to Maximize Conversions with Trackable Links

Do you ever wonder how much of your traffic is coming from people typing in your URL vs people clicking links in your emails?

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideHow about that post you shared on Facebook? How much traffic did that wall post send you? Or how about that tweet about your latest webinar? Did it send much traffic?

Answering these questions is exactly what using trackable links are for and in this post, I’m going to dive deeper into showing you exactly how you can start using trackable links to gain much deeper insight into what is working and what isn’t when it comes to using your content and social networks to attract traffic to your site.

About Google Analytics Custom Campaigns

Google analytics is a very powerful tool and I’m only just starting to scratch the surface of how to use it most effectively. One of the parts that I have been experimenting more with as of late is the custom campaigns.

By using trackable links, you can easily create custom campaigns that will tell you exactly which pieces of content are generating the most traffic for you.

Why should you care? Well…if you can identify a trend in the type(s) of content that generate the most traffic, then it might be a good a idea to continue to create, or even just spend more time sharing, more of this particular type of content, right? You bet.

The first step to creating a custom campaign is to create a trackable link with the Custom URL Builder. By using this tool, you can easily create specific links for each of your campaigns and then use these links to share your content on your social networks, within your site, or in your emails (or anywhere else you want).

Creating Your First Trackable Link

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done using the URL Builder and Infusionsoft.

How to Analyze Campaign Effectiveness

Once you have begun to use trackable links, you are going to want to start to track the effectiveness of your various campaigns. To do that, all you need to do is log into analytics and navigate your way down to the section devoted to Traffic Sources…and then within that section, you will see the campaigns section.


Helpful Hints

The very first thing you should do when you begin to use trackable links is to create a spreadsheet to track all the parameters you are using.

For example, in the video above, my campaign source parament was “bi funnel” because I wanted to track all the traffic I get from the subscribers who are going through my sales funnel. If I didn’t make a note of that in a spreadsheet, the next time that I went to create a link I might forget that I’d used “bi funnel” and instead I might type BI-Funnel, which from Google’s perspective, would be an entirely different campaign.

When entering your parameters, it’s also important that you separate multiple words with an underscore. So, instead of putting ‘wall post’, you’d want to use ‘wall_post’.

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Infusionsoft Tutorial: Marketing Campaign for Consultants and Agencies

In this Infusionsoft review, you are going to see how you can totally automate your entire prospecting and nurturing sequence so that you can significantly increase your conversion rate.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideWhat do you traditionally do with the leads that you capture? I am assuming that most of you will call them or send them an email. If they don’t respond, you will call them again or send them another email. If they don’t respond again, you will probably call them again or send them another email.

Now, here’s the real question. What do you do next?

If you are like most small business people, you stop trying to contact the prospect and they end up in the trash.

Do you realize how much business you potentially throw away every single day? Imagine the impact on your business if you could convert an extra 10% of the leads that go in the trash.

Have you ever wondered why it’s so important to nurture your prospects?

It’s because 81% of your sales happen after you make seven or more contacts to your prospects. Seven contacts! How many of you can honestly tell me you attempt to make seven or more contacts to your prospects.

Please don’t feel bad because 85% of the time, we stop after 1 to 2 contacts.

Have you ever wondered the cost of not making the additional 4 to 5 contacts to each of your prospects?

Let’s say you do a campaign to 10,000 people. This could be by email, direct mail, etc. Out of those 10,000 people, 100 people say they are interested in your product or service. Out of those 100 people, 10 people end up buying your product or service.

I’m assuming many of you would be thrilled by closing 10% of the people that were interested in your product or service.

The question I always like to ask is: what happens to the other 90 responders? Most of them fall through the cracks, have zero follow-up, or will end up buying from your competitors.

In other words, most of these 90 responders will end up in the trash.

What if, on the other hand, you had a way to easily stay in touch with them? What if it was automated?

What if this system allowed you to convert 15, 20, or 25 people instead of just 10? How much of an impact do you think all that extra profit would have on your business?

It would be huge, wouldn’t it?

That’s what I’m talking about! If you aren’t systematizing the lead nurturing process, you could be leaving thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars of profit on the table…for someone else’s business to grab.

Now, that’s just not good business!

As you can see, the key to great nurturing is AMAZING follow up. This is where so many businesspeople drop the ball. They are great at making lots of contacts and connections but they lack the skills necessary to follow up properly.

This is why most businesspeople need a specific campaign or path to follow to deliver the right follow up and this is the exact problem that is easily solved with marketing automation software like Infusionsoft.

Infusionsoft: A Much More Efficient Solution

If you are an Infusionsoft user, there is there is a much more effective way to achieve greater results with less effort (and frustration).

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done.

Want a Copy of This Campaign?

If you purchase Infusionsoft via our affiliate link, we will provide you with a copy of this campaign for free.

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