Brad Martineau 4 in x 6 in x 300 dpi x FC(1)

How to Capture More Leads, Target Them More Effectively, and Sell More Products

Do you ever feel like there is just not enough time in the day to get everything done?

Do you feel like you have a crystal clear picture of exactly what success looks like for your business?

Would you like to hear from another small business owner who is successfully making the transition from owner/operator to just owner?

If you are looking for actionable tactics and strategies that you can use to spend more time working “on” your business, as opposed to “in” it, you are going to love listening in on the discussion that we have in this interview.

My guest on the show today is Brad Martineau, founder of Sixth Division – a leading source of coaching, training, and done for you services for Infusionsoft users.

When you listen to this interview, you are going to hear Brad and I talk about:

  • (9:35) Brad’s biggest challenge
  • (12:52) How to transition from Solopreneur to Entrepreneur
  • (18:05) The story of Pardot & what anyone building a business can learn from their strategies
  • (20:05) How to define what success means to you
  • (23:35) How plusthis helps capture more leads, target them more effectively, and sell more products
  • (27:15) How Iron Tribe (a past brightideas guest) uses plusthis with great success
  • (30:05) How to customize thank you pages
  • (30:10) How Laura Roeder (another past BrightIdeas guest) uses plusthis
  • (35:05) What transactional text messaging is and how you can use it to offer a speedy response to your customers
  • (40:05) How to use expiring promotions to offer time-limited discounts
  • (48:05) How to use a Cycler Tool to determine the order in which you deliver content
  • (55:00) Lightning Round

I learned a great deal in this interview, and strongly encourage that you go check it out now.

Links Mentioned

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:


Dyrsmid: Hey there, Bright Idea hunters. Welcome to the Bright Ideas
podcast. I’m your host, Trent Dyrsmid and this is the podcast for marketing
agencies and entrepreneurs who want to discover how to use content
marketing and marketing automation to massively boost their business. My
guest on the show today is Brad Martineau, founder of Sixth Division, a
leading source of coaching, training and done-for-you services for
Infusionsoft users. They’re also the founder of a company called PlusThis
which we’re going to talk about in some detail in the interview.I met Brad while attending Infusion Con 13 and I learned of his new
venture which I just mentioned, PlusThis. They were a battle of the apps
finalist. They do some really cool stuff that integrates with Infusionsoft
and that’s why I wanted to give Brad an opportunity and talk about it.Before we get to that we’re going to talk about my technology tool
tip of the week. That is something called ‘Buffer App’. I use Buffer App to
very easily schedule up a bunch of social sharing. whether I want to put it
on LinkedIn, Facebook or Twitter. When I’m reading my RSS feed each morning
and I see stuff that I want to share with my particular audience if you
just hit the tweet button it’s all going to go out automatically right away
and I don’t necessarily want stuff to go that quickly. I like to stagger it
out. Buffer App, which is a free tool to use, you can get it at is a super easy way to stagger your distribution and choose
which of your social networks you want to share that traffic on.Lastly I want to make mention of an upcoming webinar that I have.
It’s called the Seven Secrets of Success for Small Businesses. If you want
to attend that webinar you’re going to learn all about something called
‘life cycle marketing’ which is a seven step process that I absolutely
promise you will have a massive impact on your business once you understand
and then embrace these seven steps in the business. If you are not yet a
subscriber and you want to get notified of that webinar just go to
BrightIdeas dot C-O, enter your details and you’ll definitely get emails
from me making you aware of the next webinar date.With all of that said please join me in welcoming Brad to the show.Hey, Brad. Welcome to the show.Brad
Martineau: Thanks. Glad to be here.

Trent: You recently have come out with this new tool, I’ve just
started to use it really early on and that’s why I wanted to have you on
the episode to have you talk a little bit about the tool and how you’re
using it to build your business and how your clients are using it to build
their business. It’s called PlusThis, it was a battle of the apps finalist
at Infusion Con 2013. That’s how I learned about it and I want to talk
about that but before we dive into that for people who don’t know who Brad
Martineau is or what you’re doing maybe just take a quick moment and
introduce yourself.

Brad: Yeah sure. Obviously, my name is Brad Martineau. Funny how I feel
compelled to say that even though you’ve said that several times. But
that’s my name in case anyone missed it the first time around. I’m a co-
founder at Sixth Division which is a company that provides marketing
services and coaching primarily right now our target market is people who
use Infusionsoft but we see ourselves at some point expanding to work with
the small business population at large.

My background very quickly. I was the sixth employee at Infusionsoft.
I believe it was back in 2004 was when I started so I was the entire
support team and then we hired a support team and I moved into
implementation. I was specifically just helping people implement the
software and I ended up in product management which is a fancy way of
saying that for about five and a half to six years I got to work on the
front lines with customers to figure out how they were using Infusionsoft
and quite frankly other tools in their business to run their business,
being able to see what worked, what doesn’t work. My job was to work with
our developers and our executive team to create a product development
pipeline and build features that were powerful and also made sense to

I believe I had the best job that you can possibly have. Being able
to work with end users and customers and then being able to work hand in
hand with the developers. I had my fingerprints over pretty much every
feature that was developed the time that I was there. It was really fun to
see what technology could do and understand, at a level deeper than
probably any business owner ever cares to know and I don’t know that I
really care to still know that, but it was really good to get that deep
dive of, ‘This is what’s possible with technology,’ and have that blended
with, ‘Here’s what people are doing in the real world to build their

I did that for five and half to six years and I got to a point where
the stars aligned, planets aligned got to a point where it made sense for
me to branch off. I was going to solve all the problems in the world and
then reality hit, there was a learning curve like I think everybody goes
through of building and running and growing a business is a little bit
different in theory than it is in practice so there’s a little bit of a
learning curve but after a while I connected with Dave Lee who’s my
business partner. He also worked at Infusionsoft. We worked together for
about six years. He had subsequently left as well. We decided there’s a
need for a practical, down-to-earth yet elite team and service provider to
really help people grasp this concept of marketing automation and really,
as opposed to the tail wagging the dog, put the business owner and make
them be the dog that actually wags the tail. A lot of people get in and
jump on this train ride that is Infusionsoft and they’re holding on for
dear life. We want to put them back in control and really help them
leverage the power that Infusionsoft can bring their business.

That’s the short summary. I was at Infusionsoft and now we’ve got a
company over here where we help people unleash the full power of
Infusionsoft on their business. We’re having a blast, having a good time.
PlusThis was spun off…I don’t know if you follow 37 Signals but they
wrote a book early on and talked about by product and how some of their
products were created because it was just something they needed when they
were initially being a consulting company or building and designing
websites. PlusThis is the exact same thing. It was a, we were working with
clients… and maybe you’re going to ask where PlusThis came from so it’s
going to dovetail into that but we worked with a lot of clients and we
realised very, very quickly that there were almost zero implementations
that we could do, and do the way that we wanted to to really unlock
Infusionsoft without requiring a little bit of custom development. That’s
not to say you can’t make it work. It’s just to say that the way we wanted
to build it we needed some additional tools that weren’t available. We
started contracting a developer to build these little scripts that we
wrote, and we would install it on our customer’s web server and they could
do really cool things. We realized we were building the same things over
and over again.

I had had this idea when I left Infusionsoft to build a library of
scripts so we could put everything in one spot and once we realized we were
actually building the same scripts over and over again and the fact that
business owners don’t want to think about FTP or API or web servers or any
of that, most of them, so we wanted to build something so easy… we like
to joke around the office it had to be so easy that even Clate Mask could
use it, who’s the CEO of Infusionsoft. We set out to build this library of
features, that’s what PlusThis is and we ended up becoming a finalist in
Battle of the Apps. It’s debatable as to who should have won that contest
but we’ll let it go. That’s where we are now. We provide services and then
we have this software tool that we’re continuing to develop and add on to
and again, everything we focus on right now is helping the small business
get more out of Infusionsoft and really leverage the power that’s there
whether it be through services or through software.

Drysmid: For some of the folks who haven’t heard of Sixth Division where
are you located and how many people are coming to work there every day?

Brad: We’re in Chandler, Arizona so we’re ten minutes door to door from
Infusionsoft. Straight down the freeway from Infusionsoft. We have some
employees who are remote and who travel in to do services. We’ve got one in
Ohio, one in San Diego and then there are seven of us that work in the
office. So nine total plus a couple of contractors that do some pretty
regular work for us.

Drysmid: You’ve built a very nice small business. The reason I ask that
question is there are a lot of people listening to this who are a
solopreneur or maybe even a two person or a three person shop. I remember
when I was a solopreneur and I got to two and then I got to three. When I
was at three I was thinking, ‘Man, how do I get to six?’ When I was at six
I was thinking, ‘How do I get to ten? How do I get to twelve?’ I want to
make sure people understand that you’re a small business owner just like
they are and you have the same challenges in attracting new clients and
making sure profits arrive and systematizing and so forth to grow your
business just like they do.

Brad: Just one point on that. Our biggest challenge…and I don’t say
challenge like ‘we don’t know what to do’. It’s the next obstacle. But our
obstacle right now is creating systems and getting everything in place to
where my business partner and I can spend our time building the business
and not doing the work. There’s an interesting gap that you have to get
across, if you had asked me even nine months ago I don’t know that I would
have told you that within the next six to nine months that I would
literally be in a position where I would be building the business and not
doing the work. And quite frankly I don’t know that I would have told you
that I wanted to. I think that probably six months or so ago I wanted to
build a team because we needed more people to provide services but I was
excited about being involved in the work because it was my baby.

The thought process of how we go about doing what we do, a lot of
that was coming from me. My business partner’s more the marketing and the
sales side. The only reason I bring this up is because for the person who’s
sitting at three or even at six, depending on the type of business and
there’s variations, and all different types of business, but there’s a very
strong pull to want to hold tightly to the thing that you do, whether it be
providing a service or you’re building something. Whatever the case may be
there’s a very tight pull, almost magnetic, that you want to keep a grasp
on what it is that your company does. Really for the company to grow I’ve
had to come to realize and to learn that I have to get people that can do
that and empower them to do that because there is so much work that needs
to be done to establish a systematized business and then to create a
marketing plan to continue to bring in the leads. There’s a full time job,
if not multiple full time jobs, just to build a business and it’s what the
business owner should be doing. If there’s anybody listening that’s
struggling with that that’s something I definitely struggled with. There’s
definitely a mental shift that has to take place to go from ‘I’m going to
be doing this work, I’m going to be doing it,’ to get to the point where,
‘I could actually go hire people. If I could find the right people, I could
put the right people in place to be able to get myself to where I’m
building the business and not doing the work.’ But it takes a bit of a
shift of a mind set.

Drysmid: I’m glad you brought that up and I’m going to go down that
rabbit hole for a little bit before we shift and talk about PlusThis
because I think it’s a really importantly rabbit hole. The first thing is,
you talked about something and as you were saying I thought about this. You
can have growth or you can have control. I think that’s part of that big
mind shift. I’m interested in your opinion. Did you feel you had to give up
control to get to growth?

Brad: Absolutely. Infusionsoft offers this thing called ‘Elite Forum’. It’s
Clate and Scott teaching their methodology. Dave, my business partner, and
I were involved in that when we were at Infusionsoft. He made a really
interesting comment the last time I was there which was just a different
way – I’d never thought about it this way. He said, ‘Entrepreneurship is an
exercise in learning to let go.’ If that’s not the truest statement in the
world I’m not sure what is.

I believe 100% that in order for you to be able to grow, and not just
grow revenues, but to grow the business however it needs to grow you’ve got
to have the mentality of finding good people that you can empower to go do
the job. I’ll frame that and this is a critical point. You have to know
what you want out of your business first. There are a lot of people that
want a solopreneur shop and that’s what they want. They want the lifestyle,
they want to run everything and that’s great. What I would say is, know
what you want and then create a plan to get there. If you want the
solopreneur bit then don’t let other people convince you that you should be
hiring to grow. Because if you just want the solopreneur gig then make that
work and completely control your schedule.

What you do is, this is my formula. You start by saying, ‘What do I
want out of my business?’ Whether it’s solopreneur or build the business,
whatever it is create a plan that says, ‘This is what my life will look
like as a result of me building this business.’ For some people it’s going
to be solopreneur. For us, we know how big we want to get. We don’t want
100 coaches in our services business. That’s not what we’re trying to do.
That’s not what we want to build. Infusionsoft on the other hand, they want
the whole built-to-last approach.

I’m not going to sit here and even pretend to try and judge and say
which one is right because it depends on the business owner but the key is
to know what you’re trying to build and then once you know that, then the
next step is to create a business plan that allows you to get there. Once
you define your ideal lifestyle you should end up with a dollar amount and
‘This is what the profit needs to be so I can live this way and this is
what my schedule’s going to be.’ Once you have that defined now you can
create a business plan that says, ‘These are the products and or services
I’m going to offer and this is their price point and I need to be able to
sell X number of each one.’

I don’t want to take this too far down the rabbit hole but for anyone
that is chewing on that create-the-menu business plan I would read a book
by Michael Masterson called ‘Ready, Fire, Aim’ where he talks about your
first job is to sell your first product profitably. If you’re not at the
point where you’re into profitability and cranking with the product and
you’ve got five I’d cut four of them out and I’d focus on one. And I would
focus on your most expensive one because it gives you the most profit.
There’s a whole conversation there but first, identify your ideal lifestyle
and how many hours you want to be working and how much money do you want to
be making. Then you want to create a business plan. A business plan is
literally as simple as ‘These are my products and services. This is what I
charge for them. This is my margin. Here are my fixed expenses.’ You just
come up with an equation that will tell you exactly how many units you need
to sell. Once you decide on that you move to the next step which is go
create your marketing plan of how you’re going to get those clients.

I see a lot of people that every time they run into a roadblock they
go back and assume they have to change their business plan, their products,
their services or their pricing. I say, ‘No. Decide on that and move onto
your marketing and get better at marketing. Don’t blow up your business
every month because you don’t hit the numbers you want. Figure out how to
market the right product.’ That’s the formula that works for me. And that’s
what I’ve learned. Identify what you want your ideal lifestyle to look
like, come up with a business plan. What are you going to sell, how many
and at what price point and then go create a marketing plan to make that
happen. Then your energies and effort should be in the marketing plan and
making sure you’re driving that forward.

That forces you to have to let go of everything else because your job
is to then get those units to build the business to match whatever it is
you want your lifestyle to look like but you’ve got to let go of everything
else. You can’t be answering the phone when somebody calls in. You’re never
going to build the business to where you want it to be. Somebody else needs
to do that and you need to find someone you trust to do that. You may not
be able to take all the sales calls. I don’t do any sales calls and I
hardly do any implementation anymore on the services side and it’s a little
bit difficult for me at times. It’s hard to let go of that. But yes, I
agree 100% with your statement. we can either grow or I can have complete
control over everything. I’d rather grow and get to the point where we want
to build our business to because it makes everybody’s life better.

Drysmid: It does. Plus if you’re the solopreneur there’s never anything
that you can sell, you’re never building any equity. Nobody wants to buy a
business that is 100% dependent upon you. If you’re trying to build some
lasting value for yourself and your family and have the opportunity to
transition to retirement or real estate investments or whatever it is you
want to do when you don’t want to do this anymore you cannot be a
soloprenuer and make that happen.

Brad: Yeah, I’ll take thirty seconds. A really quick story to illustrate
that. I met a guy about six or seven years ago at a [inaudible 00:18:01]
Association conference named David Cummings. He’s the guy that founded
ParDot, the email marketing solution for bigger businesses. I don’t know
how many businesses he has but, very interesting, his model as the business
owner is he starts a business and the first thing he does is go out and
finds a president or a CEO to run the business. He builds everything around
systems so literally, he just sold ParDot to, I don’t remember who it was.
Exact Target or Vertical Response or somebody. He sold it. Because none of
the businesses depended on him…normally when you sell it’s going to be
cash less stock and then you’ve got to stay around for a year. He signed,
it was a 95% cash deal, he signed and and then he walked out, literally,
walked out the door the next day, in fact it was that day, and never went
back. Never had to do anything with it. There’s a lot of power and leverage
in having a business that can just run and crank and just go, all by itself
and you’re driving the business so that if somebody else wanted to buy it
they could just drive the business but the systems are already in place.

Trent: Just for my show notes, what was his name again?

Brad: David Cummings. For anyone who wants to follow he’s got an excellent
blog. He blogs everyday and it literally takes you two minutes to read it
and they’re amazing insights, short, bullet pointed stuff, but really,
really good insights. He’s a really good entrepreneur, great mind to

Trent: What’s his blog?

Brad: That’s a great question. I think it’s 10,000 Hours of
Entrepreneurship. If you just search for David Cummings it’ll come up.

Trent: I’ll make sure I include it the show notes. At the end of the
episode I’ll announce the link for how to get to show notes. Before we move
off this topic I wanted to offer up a book as well that I just finished
reading. In Canada there’s a company called 1-800-GOT-JUNK. They’re not in
Canada, they’re worldwide now. They’re one of the more phenomenal growth
stories of at least my hometown. Their COO for years, who has left them
now, I don’t remember his name, but his book is called Double Double.
Especially being a COO, he’s a real numbers guy and he talked a lot in
Double Double about pretty much, Brad, what you said.
Figure out what the outcome is that you want and then reverse engineer. His
name is Cameron Herold. Reverse everything you need to do to get there and
then figure out what your key performance indicators are and your job is to
watch those very closely on a weekly, daily, monthly basis to make sure
you’re hitting them. In his book he chapter by chapter breaks down how to
do all this. If it’s growth you want this is probably a book you’re going
to enjoy.

Brad: I don’t think it can be overstated, the importance of ‘decide what
you want and reverse engineer how to get there’. I think there are way too
many people who wake up every day and they go into an office and they feel
comfortable they spent eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve hours in an office
and they go home but they have absolutely zero bearing on whether or not
they are closer or further away from their goal. Usually I see the problem
is people haven’t started by defining what their goal is. They have no idea
what success looks like. And if I can throw out one last little bit on this
and then we can be done with it. It’s not easy to figure that out. I think
some people get into it and they try and write it down and they feel dumb
because they feel it should be easy to figure out. It’s not. It is a pain
in the freaking butt to figure out and really identify what you want.

It takes a lot of thought because you have to balance everything in
your life. If you’ve got kids you’ve got to balance out how it’s going to
work with your family, how much time do you want to spend versus how much
time do you want to spend in the business? I Ultimately it just comes down
to making a decision. It’s not easy. It’s a simple process but it does take
time and it is hard because you’ve got a lot of stuff to balance and
because you’ve never thought about it before.

If you’re an entrepreneur or a business owner and you don’t have a
clear number, meaning dollar amount/time amount, that you’re working
towards, then there’s a certain part of you that is just wasting time every
day when you wake up and go to work. You’ve got to know. If you’re trying
to lose weight it’s easy. You know exactly how much weight you’re trying to
lose and then you work towards that every single day. Same thing in
business. what are you trying to make happen in the business and what are
you working towards? You’ve got to decide that. It pains my soul every time
I talk to someone that doesn’t know. ‘What are you doing then? How do you
know if you’re being successful or not if you have no idea what your goal

Trent: It’s like going for a drive and not knowing where you
destination is. Or just driving around. At the beginning of Cameron’s book,
that’s what he devotes his first three chapters to. In fact, chapter one is
called Vision/Painted Picture and it’s preparing for fast growth. Very
good. I’m sure you would love it.

That was a cool rabbit hole, I’m glad we went down it and I’m quite
sure we served the audience by doing so.

Now I want to talk about PlusThis. Infusionsoft as you know and I
know and anyone who’s listening to this already knows is an amazingly
powerful tool so much so that people who don’t use it really don’t even
get. They don’t comprehend. I get emails from people every week saying,
‘Could you spend a little bit of time with me showing me why you’re so
excited about Infusionsoft?’ I do a little Skype and screen share and show
them how much of my stuff I’ve automated and usually their jaw is just
hanging open. ‘I had no idea. I thought it was an email program.’ Which
couldn’t be further from the truth.

You build this thing called ‘PlusThis’ which integrates very smoothly
with Infusionsoft because there are all these little problems that you want
to solve that are not necessarily super easy to solve with Infusionsoft.
We’re going to give some specific examples of that in about ten seconds and
how solutions to those problems can benefit the business. Let’s talk about
a couple of the features that you guys have developed early on in PlusThis.
Let’s start off with Stealth Video Tracking. What is it and why should
someone use it?

Brad: Perfect, let me just start. All of these we go through, our approach
to PlusThis. Let me just give the backdrop for that, all those will make
more sense. The end result of using Infusionsoft in our business is we want
to make more money. We can make more money by converting more people. We
can convert more people by getting the right message to the right person.
That requires us to know a couple of things. One, we need to know a heck of
a lot of information about the prospects and customers in our database so
we know if they’re the right person to send a particular message to.

We want to provide tools in PlusThis that allow us to capture and
store more information about our prospects and customers. What are they
doing, who are they? Then we want to build tools that allow us to send more
relevant and more targeted messaging that will lead to increased
conversion. The big picture backdrop is, capture more information so we
can be more targeting and convert more sales and make more money. That’s
the idea.

Stealth Video Tracking. The generic use of this is if you’re using
YouTube, Wistia is a video provider, or Vimeo, anyone of those three, we
can help you track how long people watch any of the videos you use in your
marketing. Probably the two most famous examples of this are Jermaine
Griggs. I’ve got a whole interview with him but but Jermaine Griggs. His
entire model is set up, he’s got four videos that he gives to his new leads
to start his opt in piece. And what he does is, he uses his videos to build
relationships with his customers. Also, on each video, next to each video
he’s got a little mini survey that allows him to capture additional
information. So what he does is, he sends people to go watch his videos. If
they don’t watch them I believe he sends them up to three or four
reminders to try and get them to go back and watch the video. If they watch
the video a couple of things happen. One, he knows they’re engaged in the
content so he knows they’re better likely to get an offer and actually buy
something. Two, he’s able to make jokes in his videos and start to build a
relationship with these people and three, he’s got a higher likelihood that
people will fill out the survey and give him even more information about
who they are and what they’re interested in.

So with the video tracking feature what you are able to do is track
of whether people have watched your videos or not and then you can adjust
your marketing based on that. So, for him, if somebody watches his first
video right away then the next video gets ‘unlocked’ the next day. If they
don’t watch it, then what happens is they get a reminder the next day to
watch video one and they’ll continue to get reminders up to three
reminders. At the end of three he’s like, ‘Fine, if you don’t watch video
one I’m going to try to get you to watch video two’. But because he knows
whether they’ve watched the video or not he’s able to then adjust his
marketing to make sure he’s preparing all his prospects the right way. On
the front end marketing side that’s one way you can use it. If he had a
sales team that was picking up the phone and calling, he doesn’t, but if he
did then they would be able to, when they opened up a contact record, would
be able to look at the contact record and as they’re talking to someone
they would know what that person has watched and what they haven’t watched.

Another example is Iron Track Fitness, they were the Ultimate
Marketer winners in 2012. Jermaine won in 2011. They’re selling franchises
now. They’re a gym out in Alabama but they’ve started franchising and
they’re at like 40 locations or something. Now what they do is, on the
franchise side of it, when they’re selling new franchises, they have their
entire education and basically franchise, onboarding process built into a
membership center and that’s all video based. They have a ton of training
that’s all video based and they take people through classes. What they do
is they use the video tracking feature to track whether or not somebody has
completed a course or not, whether they’re watching the videos. The people
that manage how their new franchisees are moving through the process can go
in and they have a simple little dashboard that tells them whether the
person is watching the videos or not. If they’re not they can pick up the
phone and be like, ‘Hey, look. You really need to watch this video because
it’s going to affect your franchise in this way, this way, and this way.’
It allows them to have better customer service for their franchises.

Whether it’s on the marketing side or whether you have an info
product and you want to be aware of whether people are watching or not. If
you’ve got an info product or a course and somebody’s not watching, that
person is going to be at risk to cancel or request a refund so it’ll let
you highlight who those people are. You can pick up the phone and call
them. On the flip side if it’s any of your marketing content, people that
are watching all your videos are at a higher likelihood that they are going
to be willing to buy. They are more interested. Those are the people you
want to call first or engage with first.

Again, it’s about giving you more information so you can either
change your conversation you’re having in person or automatically adjust
the conversation you’re having through emails or whatever other follow up
you’re doing.

Trent: For the folks who are maybe are not yet using Infusionsoft I
want to make sure there’s no details that are missed here. All of this
stuff happens on auto-pilot. When someone watches a video to a certain
point, which you define, you can then apply a tag within Infusionsoft and
when a tag gets applied you can trigger in the campaign builder all sorts
of actions whether they be phone calls or additional emails or what have
you. When Brad says ‘Germaine adjusts what he does’ it’s not as though he’s
sitting at his desk doing different stuff.

Brad: Quite the opposite actually. I think he literally works an hour a
week on that business that’s cranking out. Because he has it dialled in.
It’s totally 100% automated. All you do is build it once and then it runs
every time like clockwork.

Trent: If you’re interested in hearing more about Forrest Walden I did
interview him. You can get to that interview by going to BrightIdeas dot C-
O slash 3. It was a fascinating interview. Jermaine is actually going to be
on the show soon so if you want to catch that interview make sure you
become a subscriber and you’ll get a notification.

Let’s talk about customized thank-you pages. What’s the big deal
about those?

Brad: Stealth Video Tracking is more about capturing more data so that we
can start to tailor our message. customized thank-you Pages is a tool that
allows you to actually display customized messaging. When you get into
Infusionsoft it’s relatively easy, like you just described, to have
Infusionsoft automatically branch your messaging where if they watch the
video send them this series of emails and if they haven’t continue to send
them this series of emails. You can do all that inside Infusionsoft with
your emails or your voice broadcast or letters. You can have it branch in
terms of what you send out of Infusionsoft to your prospects or customers.
What Infusionsoft doesn’t have the capability to do is let you control the
message that you display immediately after somebody buys a product or fills
out a web form and opts into your website. Or fills out a survey that you
sent them if they opted in previously.

A really good example of this is: Laura Roder is a client of ours.
She teaches people about social media, she talks about Facebook and she
talks about Twitter and she talks about LinkedIn and Google Plus and
there’s a whole bunch of different social media tools. When somebody comes
to her website and they opt in, she’s going to want to ask them ‘What are
you most interested in?’ or ‘What are you having the most problems with?’
It only makes sense that if somebody checks off the box and says, ‘Hey,
Facebook is my biggest challenge right now,’ then it only makes sense that
the next page that shows up would be a page that talks about Facebook as
opposed to having one page. Imagine 100 people filling out this form and
let’s just say they were spread evenly across Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn
and Google Plus. You have two options. option number one is on the thank
you page you give a generic message that talks about all four of those. Or
you get tailored and based on their biggest problem you take Facebook
people to Facebook, you take Twitter people to Twitter, you take LinkedIn
people to LinkedIn and then you take Google Plus people to Google Plus. The
more you can keep your message 100% on target the higher your conversions
will be.

She’s excited because she’s able to use it increase her profit per
lead because as people are coming in, based on what she knows about them,
she’s able to deliver a very targeted thank you page after somebody fills
out the form. Now, the email messages will most definitely be targeted
because that’s handled inside Infusionsoft but the follow up marketing
starts on the thank you page of a web form. Most people don’t think of
that. I’ll see a lot of people that put up a web form to capture a lead and
all they’ll put on the thank you page is ‘thank you’. Really? They’re at
the peak of their interest. They’re most interested right when they opt in
or right when they fill out the form and the very first message they see is
the thank you page and a lot of people just throw up a generic ‘thank you’.
It’s like ‘No.’ That’s where you either continue to conversation or that’s
where you start selling something.

Another thing Laura will do and several of our other clients is let’s
just say somebody fills out a form to request a new report Seven, whatever.
Seven Secrets of whatever it is. On the thank you page they want to up sell
a particular product, say Product A. If somebody’s already bought Product A
you don’t want to offer them an up sell at a discounted price especially if
they bought at full price. customized thank-you pages also let you
comfortably and confidently put pages out there and allows you to take
anyone that’s already bought that particular product you basically branch
them to a page that is about something else. Maybe it’s an additional piece
of content or Product B. Try to sell them that product. So, customized
thank-you pages let you start creating a completely tailored message not in
your first email but actually on the thank you page when they’re looking
at it right there. You have 100% open rate on that page. Everybody sees it.

Trent: For anyone who would like to hear the interview with Laura
Roder I’ve done that, it’s at She has done a phenomenal
job of transitioning from what used to be just a web design, solopreneur
business, so this kind of dovetails into what Brad and I were talking about
earlier, into a team and a seven figure business with a very healthy profit
margin that she runs from her laptop on the road. Again,
if you’d like to hear more about Laura’s story.

Brad: So much so that when we worked with her, which was last year she was
about ten minutes late. She was like, ‘Sorry I’m late. On Monday we decided
to move.’ She was engaged and they are moving to London in the span of a
week and a half. This was inspiring to me that she had her business set up
this way. In the span of a week and a half she decided to move to London,
sold everything in her house, moved to London and it didn’t disrupt
anything in her business. It was really impressive. Anyway, really
interesting story.

Trent: That’s one of the reasons why so many of us are enamoured with
online businesses because it does give you that flexibility. Where are we
time wise? Okay, we’re still good.

Let’s talk about transactional text messaging. Again, what’s the big
deal? Why should I care about this stuff?

Brad: Text messaging. We have a ton of clients that use it for reminders
for webinars, to get people onto webinars. We have a lot of clients that
set up appointments. The way that they sell and the way that we sell set up
appointments to meet with someone and it’s a consultation and then we sell
out of the consultation.

We’ve got a guy, I forget where he is, anyway, Clint Barr. He runs a
fitness business and his whole model is people opt in for free information
and then he drives them to come into the office, sit down and have a
consultation. When you get into the gym world and into the MMA world and
all those they have insanely high close rates, 85% to 90% of the people who
get to an appointment will close. And it’s because, before you walk into a
gym you usually have a pretty good idea whether you’re going to buy or not
so their thing is getting people to come in for the appointments. We set up
a follow up sequence where we would do some email remainders and also a
text message reminder to get the person to come in because text message has
a much higher read rate than email. He was saying that before we
implemented that he would usually have six or seven no shows a month and he
got it down to one no show a month.

If you look at that and it’s like, ‘Well, those numbers aren’t
massive,’ but when you consider he’s setting maybe 20 to 25 appointments a
month. That’s 20% to 25% of the people that are coming in, that are
scheduling appointments don’t show up, and then he gets five more people
to show up, well five more people to show up at an 80% close rate means
he’s adding four new clients. You factor that over the life of the client
because they’re signing up for a three, six or twelve month contract then
all of a sudden it’s a little bit bigger deal. When you multiply those
numbers across any other business with larger margins or higher ticket
items it’s definitely worth it. Small hinges swing big doors. This is a
small hinge that could potentially swing a very large door.

The other potentially slightly different and, I think, maybe more
interesting use of text messaging that he has just recently implemented, in
his business, and I think this is true in a lot of businesses, he’s found
that speed of response is huge. When somebody opts in or somebody requests
an appointment the amount of time that passes between the time they’ve
filled out a form and he gets them on the phone to have a conversation has
a lot to do with whether or not that person’s going to convert. What he did
was he set up his system to where the transactional text message, he gets
one sent to him every time somebody opts in or requests an appointment.
There are some points where the clock starts ticking and whenever that
happens he has a text message go to him. I think he actually has changed it
to go to the assistant that actually makes the calls so the text message
comes in, ‘Heads up. Brad Martineau just filled out the form requesting an
appointment. Here’s the phone number.’ He clicks on the phone number and
can call it right then and literally be connected to the person within a
minute if they pick up. It allows him to cut down on his time of response.

Another interesting idea or use case for text messaging is not to
send it to prospects or customers but to send it to myself as the business
owner or a key employee or potentially even partners. There are a lot of
different ways you can use that once you start to realize, ‘Wait a minute.
I don’t have to send this to the prospect. I can send it to anybody I want
if I have their information.’

Trent: Excuse me, I have a frog in my throat today. I actually built
that feature into my…I have a plug in that generates leads for marketing
consultants and marketing agencies. If you want to check it out go to Mobi,
M-O-B-I, LeadMagnet dot com. I have that feature that built into the plug
in where when someone fills out the form on the landing page if I’m the
vendor, the guy who wants to get the customer, it lights up my phone and
says, ‘Bob just filled out the form two seconds ago.’ On my Smartphone I
just tap the phone number that came in and you can instantly be on the
phone with Bob and say, ‘Bob, I notice you just filled out my form.’ That’s
the moment you want to talk to somebody because they emotionally have made
a purchase decision and you don’t want to lose out on that opportunity.

Brad: Exactly, exactly.

Trent: All right. I’ll try my best to keep the frog out of my throat.
I guess I talked too much over the Memorial Day weekend so apologies to
everybody for me coughing. In Robert Cialdini’s book, I think I pronounced
that properly, on… gosh now I’ve forgotten the title. But it was,
scarcely, where I’m going with this, feebly I might add…

Brad: ‘Influence’ right?

Trent: Yes, ‘Influence’ is the importance of scarcity in marketing.
It’s hardwired into us to be more inclined to act when there’s the
possibility of losing out on something. That transitions us into this thing
called ‘expiring promotions’. What are they, why should I care about them
and how does PlusThis help me make them go?

Brad: Yeah, absolutely. Anytime you’re creating an offer of any kind, one,
your offer needs to be irresistible and amazing in and of itself. In
addition to that, any time I’m creating an offer, and this is whether it’s
an offer on a landing page, an offer for somebody to buy something or
whether I’m presenting something from stage, it doesn’t even matter in
which medium I’m delivering the offer, I’m always considering how do I…
the way s that I make the offer really great are, one, you’ve got to have a
good offer to start. Two, some type of a discount that’s available for a
limited amount of time. I’ll usually throw in bonuses for the first certain
number of people, because the idea of scarcity is so real you’ve got to
make sure you include some element of ‘I need to act now so I can get
this, this, this and this.’ The idea of creating an environment where when
somebody comes into buy…when I was at Infusionsoft the VP of Sales used a
term I’d never heard before and I really liked it. He called it a ‘forcing
function’. He said, ‘You’ve got to have a forcing function. You have to
have something that pushes the person to buy. They can’t just sit around
and say ‘Oh, that’s a cool offer but I know it’ll be there forever. I’ll
buy later.’ It needs to be something that causes the person to sit up in
their chair and say, ‘Wait a minute. I need to consider this right now
because if I don’t right now I’m going to miss out on something.’ That’s
the idea behind expiring promotions. With PlusThis it’s not a single
feature, you use a couple of features together to pull off expiring
promotions but the idea is that when somebody comes and they opt in, they
get you some free piece of information and at some point in the cycle
what’s going to happen is, you need to say, ‘By the way, I have this
product you can buy, product A and I’m going to give you a discount if you
buy it within the next seven days or within the next fourteen days.’ You
get to choose what your cycle is.

One of our clients, Sean Greely runs Net Profit Explosion, he helps
fitness businesses build their businesses up. He uses this concept where
when people opt in he’s trying to get them onto a consultation. Normally
they charge for their consultations. So his offer is that within the first
30 days you can get a free consultation instead of having to pay for it if
you jump. The key elements of creating an expiring promotion are you have
to know when the promotion ends and with it expiring you want it to be
evergreen which means it can work for anybody. We’ll take Sean’s example.
You’re doing a 30 day promotional window. If Jim comes and opts in today
then in 30 days from now his offer needs to expire and I need to be able to
talk to him about his offer expiring in 30 days from today. What’s today?
May, whatever. Anyway, today.

If John comes and opts in next week I need his promotion to expire in
a week and 30 days. It’s got to be built where no matter when somebody
comes into my system I can create this promotion that expires based on when
they’re coming in and on their timetable. What you do is, we have a feature
that allows you to calculate a date, it’s called What’s the Date, but
calculate a date in the future.

So what you would do is you would say, ‘The first thing I want to do
when somebody comes into my system is I need to calculate when does their
promotion expire.’ If it’s a 30 days window we have a feature where you
say, take today’s date, add 30 days and it will create that date and store
it for you inside Infusionsoft. Then we use another feature that’s called
Humanize the Dates, because they’re storing it as a funky computer date. We
want to convert it so it’s readable like a human would read it so that we
can merge it into emails. As soon as somebody opts in PlusThis says, ‘I
know today is May 1 and this guy’s offer needs to expire on June 1.’ So
what it will do is, it will calculate June 1 and then convert it into a
human date so I can put it in an email and say, ‘Thanks for coming and
opting in. I’ve got an offer for you. You can buy this product at half off
plus I’ll throw in this bonus, this bonus and this bonus and you’ve got to
buy before June 1.’

Then I can schedule all of my follow up emails leading up to that
expiration date but it’s specific to each contact so, again, if somebody
comes in on May 1 their expiration date is June 1. If somebody comes in on
May 15 their expiration date is June 15. For every single person that comes
in there is an automatic built in sense of urgency and scarcity because
they’ve only got a certain amount of time to take advantage of that
particular offer. So what it does is, it allows you to create that scarcity
and increase sales and you don’t have to do anything with it. Just like we
talked about with Jermaine’s system before, it’s autopilot. The thing just
runs. Every time they come in you’re cranking out your expiring promotion.
That’s the idea. We have a lot of clients that have used that all over the
board with a lot of great success.

Trent: I want to jump into that one a little deeper because I’m
thinking how I could implement that with my own. I have my info products
which are products within Infusionsoft and then I use an order form. I’m
very familiar with promotional codes and so forth that you could give a
discount. How does your expiring promotions tie into that? How does it
actually work? Would I have to create more than one order form? Do I have
more than one promotional code? Within that 30 day window let’s say, I
wanted, just hypothetically speaking, If you buy in the first week I’m
going to give you 50% off, if you buy before week two the discount goes
down to 25% off and if you wait till the very end it’s only 10% off.

Brad: The most sure-fire way to do this is with either the new order form
or the shopping cart where you can pass promo codes through the link into
the order form or into the shopping cart. And then what you do, here’s the
deal. This is where it gets tricky, right? You’re going to send an email
in week one that says, ‘If you buy within the first week you’re going to
get 50% off,’ they still have that email even when they get into week two.
They can click on the link from that email so it can’t be embedded in that
link that they get a 50% discount because they can go back to it and click
later. The third feature that you use is actually the customized thank-you
page feature. So what you do is you go in and you create a customized thank-
you page that will route to, let’s say you have three different offers.
50%, 25% and full price. You’ll create a customized thank-you page that
says if they have a tag that says I should give them 50% off I’m going to
send them to the 50% off link which adds the same product into the cart but
it includes a 50% off promo code.

If they have a tag that says they should get 25% off we’ll forward
them on to a link that says add the same product but give them a 25% off.
If they have a tag that says no discount then just add to product to the
cart like normal. And then what happens out of PlusThis, is PlusThis gives
you a URL and you plug that into all of your links across any one of the
emails. It doesn’t matter which email it goes in and then throughout your
sequence you’re going to apply and remove tags that control which promotion
they get.

As soon as they opt in this person gets a 50% off promo. That runs
for a week and at the end of that week we take that tag off and we put on
the ‘this person gets a 25% promo’. End of the next week we take off 25%
and put they don’t get any discount. What happens is no matter what email
they get throughout that calendar time frame, those emails will all point
to the PlusThis customized thank-you page URL so when they click on it,
whether they click on it during the first, second or third week, they’ll go
to PlusThis. PlusThis is going to check which promotion or discount they
should get and it will then pass them along to the appropriate URL and
because you’re passing the promo code through the URL when they get to the
shopping cart all they’ll see is your generic shopping cart URL at the top
and they’ll have no idea that a promo code was entered so they have no way
to spoof it unless somehow they figure out what that promo code is.

Trent: Slick. Excuse me, the frogs are back. That is a fantastic tool.

The last one is the ‘Cycler Tool’. I don’t even know what that is
because I haven’t used it yet. Why do I care about that?

Brad: You can do this without PlusThis if you’re really bored and like to
build a bunch of stuff out of Infusionsoft, which I’ve found most people
would rather make money. I think the first time I built this was for Laura
Roder, again she talks about social media concepts. When I opt in I might
say, ‘Facebook is my biggest problem but I’m also interested in learning
about Twitter and LinkedIn. I don’t care about Google Plus.’ Any time you
are marketing to prospects that have a wide variety of interests across
different topics you immediately come across this dilemma of ‘Okay, how am
I going to keep track of what people want and then how am I going to choose
what to send them and in what order?’ So you can get into Infusionsoft.
With her we built something called a ‘Cycler’. Think of it as a wheel
basically. When somebody opts in the first thing we want to try and pitch
them on is Facebook. If I know they’re interested in Facebook and Twitter I
want to try to pitch them on Facebook first.

If I know they’re interested in Twitter and LinkedIn I’m going to try
Twitter first. She’s got four kinds of messages in her library of content.
Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and Google Plus. When she goes to decide what
she needs to send to somebody first she needs to know what the person is
interested and then second, know if she’s already sent something. Once she
knows those two things, then she needs to have a priority of how she would
normally send things, if somebody was interested in everything what order
would she send all of her content in. So what this tool does, is it allows
you to go into PlusThis and say, ‘My library of content is broken up across
these four topics.’ And I’ll stick with Laura as a specific example.
Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and Google Plus. ‘If somebody’s interested in
all four I want to market to them, first I want to talk to them about
Facebook. If that doesn’t work I’ll talk about Twitter, if that doesn’t
work or even if it does, then I’ll talk about LinkedIn and then I’ll talk
about Google Plus.’ You go into PlusThis and you set those four up as
pieces of content that you have that you want to send out. You create a tag
for whether the person is interested in each one of those and then you have
a tag that says ‘start this content’, meaning either send this email or
start this entire sequence.

We also set this up for Casey Graham and the Rocket Company. They
were the 2013 Ultimate Marketers. They just came out and we built a similar
thing for them. Where, when somebody opts in, lets say somebody comes in
and says, ‘I’m interested in Facebook and I’m interested in LinkedIn,’
instead of choosing a sequence to start we just run an ACTP post to
PlusThis. PlusThis, say Okay, let me go check and see what this person,
it’ll basically say ‘Number one is Facebook. Let me go see if this person
has a Facebook tag that says they’re interested. If they do then I’m going
to go check and see if I’ve already sent them the Facebook content. If I
haven’t I’m going to start the Facebook content and I’m going to stop.
PlusThis doesn’t do anything else, it starts the Facebook sequence. Once
the Facebook sequence is done, then what I can do is I can run that same
ACTP post again and it will come back to PlusThis. Are they interested in
Facebook? Yes. Have I already sent the content to them? Yes. Okay, let me
move to the next one. Are they interested in Twitter? No, I don’t have a
tag for that. Okay I’m going to move to the next one. Are they interested
in LinkedIn? Yes. Have I sent it before? No. Okay, let me send the LinkedIn
content. It allows you to take this library of content and it allows you to
organize it any way that you want and you plug it into PlusThis and you can

For example, this may be a more specific example. you have a whole
bunch of interviews to talk about whole bunch of different stuff. Let’s say
you went through all your interviews, you’ve got at least 44. Because I’m
counting your numbers as you go up. As you look at all the interviews you
could categorize them and say, ‘This is a marketing interview. This is a
business building interview. This is a leadership interview. This is a
technology interview.’ You could label them all that way. Then what you do
is you say, I’m going to have people opt in and I want to know what they’re
interested in. I’m going to give them options. ‘I’m interested in marketing
and I’m interested in technology. I don’t really care about leadership and
business building.’

Instead of you building out this really intricate fancy campaign
inside Infusionsoft you go into PlusThis and you say, ‘Hey look. I’ve got
interviews for every interview you create a new entry in this cycler tool.
For all the interviews that are marked ‘marketing’ you’ll set it and say,
‘Hey if they’ve got the marketing tag I want to send this interview. Then
you have a tag that will kick off that interview and actually send it. Then
when you’re building out your ongoing [inaudible 00:52:44] you’re deciding
what email or what interview you want to release this week, instead of
putting an email in you put in an ACTP post that goes to PlusThis and says,
‘Hey, go grab the next interview that this person’s interested in that I
haven’t yet sent.’ It will automatically kick if off. It allows you to, you
basically put this library of content up and let PlusThis decide, based on
how you build it, PlusThis decides what to send and who it should be sent
to based on what they’e told you they’re interested in.

So as you add new interviews you might have a really hot interview on
marketing and you want to be sure that’s the next interview anybody gets
who’s interested in marketing. You go into PlusThis and add it to the top
of the Cycler and next time that ACTP post runs to PlusThis, no matter how
far down the list of interviews somebody is the next time it comes back
it’ll take that one first and say ‘Hey, are they interested? Yes, because
they said they were interested in marketing’. Second, ‘have I sent it? No.
It’s a brand new interview.’ And that will go out next to everybody who’s
interested in marketing.

Trent: That is very cool.

Brad: So anyway, what you get to do is, you build the logic of what kind of
content you’re going to produce and then all you have to do is just fill
the library. PlusThis will keep track of who should get what based on what
they’re already received and based on what they’re interested in. It
greatly reduces the complexity of, have I already sent this to somebody? It
allows you to leverage your content better too because you can just create
a library and you don’t have to think through who I should send what to.
PlusThis does it automatically.

Trent: Yeah that’s very cool.

Brad: That one’s a little harder to visualize so I apologize to everybody
on the call, once you see it it’s a little bit easier. It’s extremely
powerful in being able to cycle through different offers and promotions and
stuff like that.

Trent: Okay. Regarding the number of interviews it’s actually much
more than 44. If you want to listen to Casey Graham you can go to I think we’re up around 70 or so, they’re not all up.
Two a week. I’m cranking them out. All right, so that pretty much sums up
all I wanted to cover.

We just dumped a ton of marketing automation madness on the audience
and I took feverish notes and I will mention like I say at the very end of
this episode what the URL will be to get to these show notes. Actually I
can tell you now. It’s going to be So there you go Brad
you’re number 65.

Brad: Sweet.

Trent: We’ll wrap up with the lightning round. Brad, what are you most
excited about for 2013.

Brad: I am most excited because 2013 is the year I’m going to go from being
an owner-operator to an owner and it will be two businesses. We’re starting
to treat PlusThis as a totally separate business from our services. We’ve
got some other software ideas that are bubbling but I’m excited because
this will be the year where we get our systems in place, we’ve got a killer
team in place that’s cranking and it will allow me to leverage my strengths
in way better ways than I ever could realize before. I’m stoked because I’m
starting to feel the freedom. It’s not the I went through the ‘Oh I’m
excited because I’ve freedom I can go do whatever I want. And then I
realized you know what, it’s not like-, I’m 33, I’m not at the point where
I’m trying to not work for a year. What I want to do is I want to have is a
manageable schedule and make cool stuff happen and starting to get to the
point of tasting the way that we’re going to be able to make really cool
stuff happen is by me not being involved in delivering all of the work, but
actually having the freedom to be able to apply a strategic vision to our
business. And we’ve got two really good product offerings that I think
we’re just scratching the surface of what we can do on both sides. I’m
excited because I’m right at that threshold of being able to get over the
humps, so to speak. And I feel like over the next couple of years we’re
going to be able to explode both PlusThis and the services side and I’ve
got a couple of other software things that that will hopefully be coming
out relatively soon.

Trent: Very cool. Make sure you let me know and if they fit with the
audience that I’ve got, which I’m sure they will, I’ll be happy to have you

Brad: Perfect.

Trent: What is your favorite business book?

Brad: That is a tough question. I saw this when you sent the question over
before when you at least you were nice enough to warn me that you were
going to ask that. It depends, is my answer. It depends on what area of
business, like, business is not like simple things. So there’s a bunch of
different aspects to it.

Trent: Absolutely.

Brad: So I’ll just rattle off a couple that I really, really, really like.
One of them is ‘Ready, Fire Aim’ by Michael Masterson. I jokingly refer to
that as one of my bibles for building my business. It is such a practical
down to earth and logical approach to growing a business and so, there’s a
quick summary and he gives four phases that every business goes through. I
have read the overview of all four and I actually have only read the first
section and a half because that’s all that applies to my business and I had
enough stuff to go run and work with. So, love that one.

I love Verne Harnish, ‘Mastering The Rockefeller Habits’ it’s a great
read. Pretty simple read too but a great read to start to wrap your brain
around metrics and how to track them. The only caution that I would throw
out is depending on where your business is that book may… read it as a
student, not as a follower. Meaning read it to take ideas and then realize
that all the stuff he talks about may not be critical depending on where
your business is, but it’s a great frame of reference. Like, ‘Yes, I need
to be doing metrics. I need to be having reporting in place.’ So that’s a
great book.

Let me think what other like.

Trent: Well lets stop with two.

Brad: Okay, we’ll stop with two.

Trent: Two is good.

Brad: Oh, I got one more. Sorry, one more. This one I think is
awesome. For pricing and sales. It’s ‘No BS Pricing Strategy’ by Dan
Kennedy. Amazing, amazing book to help you understand how to price and how
to sell. Great book. So those three, money.

Trent: Okay. And for people that want to get hold of you, what is the
one easiest way for them to do that?

Brad: Go to We do a similar interview approach. We’ve
done a bunch of video interviews with marketers, Jermaine Griggs is one of
them. You can go there, and opt in for the interviews and get access to a
bunch of content there and then.

If you are an Infusionsoft user and are interested in anything else
we have to offer you’ll be prompted to schedule a consultation but as you
go through that process… so on the services side,
that’s the best place to find out anything about what we’re doing and then on the software side. But that’s pretty much where we are.
That’s where all of our stuff is at.

Trent: All right my friend. Thank you so much for making some time to
come on the show. I really enjoyed this interview and I’m sure the audience
did as well.

Brad: Thanks for having me.

Trent: You’re welcome to come back any time you like.

Brad: All right. Awesome.

Trent: All right. To get to the show notes from today’s episode go to When you’re there you’ll see all the links that we’ve
talked about today plus some other valuable information you can use to
ignite more growth in your business.

If you’re listening to this on you mobile phone while you’re driving
or doing whatever, just send a text – rather, just text TRENT to 585858 and
I’m going to give you access to the massive traffic toolbox, which is a
compilation of all the very best traffic generation strategies that have
been shared with me by my many proven experts that have been guests here on
the show.

As well, you’ll also be able to get a list of all my favorite
episodes that I’ve published thus far on the blog.

And finally, if you really enjoyed this episode, please head over to where you’ll be able to give or rather find the link to
leave us a rating in the iTunes store and I would really appreciate it if
you would take a moment to do that, because it helps the show to build its
audience and the more audience members we have, of course the more people
we can help to massively boost their business.

So that’s it for this episode. I’m your host, Trent Dyrsmid and I
look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Take care and have a wonderful day.

Recording: Thanks very much for listening to the Bright Ideas podcast.
Check us out on the web at

About Brad Martineau

bradmug2-copyBrad Martineau, Co-Founder of Sixth Division, serves the small business community as the leading provider of coaching and software tools that help entrepreneurs tap into the power of marketing automation.  He’s consulted thousands of successful entrepreneurs, business owners, and top marketers around the world.  He loves teaching and helping people understand difficult concepts.  Nothing drives him nuts more than seeing someone NOT do something because they don’t know how.

Back in the day, he was the sixth employee at Infusionsoft, and spent over six years leading the product development efforts as a key member of the Infusionsoft leadership team.  He had a blast and learned a ton doing this, all while getting to rub shoulders with many very highly successful entrepreneurs.

Brad is married with five kids, loves playing basketball, is addicted to fitted hats, and is pretty into the whole entrepreneur thing.

Casey Graham 4 in x 6 in x 300 dpi x FC

Digital Marketing Strategy: How Casey Graham Reached 5,000 customers and $2 Million in Sales in Just 3 Years

3 years ago, Casey Graham was at rock bottom. He was $80,000 in debt, he’d just missed out on a major family event (because he was on the road making sales calls), and things at home weren’t exactly firing on all cylinders.

For many early-stage entrepreneurs, this is an all too familiar story.

Fast forward 3 years, and Casey’s company has become extremely successful, all thanks to a major realization he made on a trip home from overseas (when we was missing out on that important family event).

While on the plane, Casey realize that the way he was delivering his product was wrong, he sales strategy was wrong, and if he was going to ever realize his dreams of owning a successful business, he was doing to need to do a number of things differently.

In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast, I’m joined by Casey Graham, founder of The Rocket Company, and also the winner of Infusionsoft’s 2013 Ultimate Marketer award. Having made some pretty big changes to his business 3 years ago, Casey now generates over $2 million a year (with very high profit margins), is completely debt free, and is having more fun than ever!

When you listen to this interview, here are some of the things that you are going to hear Casey and I talk about:

  • How entering his company in the Infusionsoft Ultimate Marketing Finals really helped his team to get ultra focused
  • (10:52) The story of how Casey fired himself from his last job to start his own business (and how awful it turned out)
  • (19:12) How his very first email broadcast from Infusionsoft earned him a few thousand dollars (something that he’d NEVER done before)
  • (20:12) Casey’s traffic generation strategy, and specifically, how Twitter played a pivotal role in growing his list from 832 to over 47,000 in just 3 years
  • (25:12) How Casey sets up automated nurturing campaigns in Infusionsoft
  • (28:16) How Casey warms up his new leads in a very special warm up sequence, which is then followed by a webinar sequence that results in the vast majority of their product sales
  • (32:42) How webinars play a crucial role in Casey’s sales funnel and how he structures them to produce maximum conversions
  • (34:00) How he presents an offer in his webinar so that more sales result
  • (37:30) How Casey generates substantial additional revenue via up-sells and cross-sells
  • (38:30) The 3 types of up-sells that Casey uses and how to replicate what he’s doing in your own business
  • (47:12) How Casey is building “relationship capital” with his customers with specific examples
  • (52:00) How the success of all of this has massively changed Casey’s life
  • (55:10) What he is most excited about for 2013, his favorite business book, and how to reach him
..And so much more!


More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:


Trent: Hey there bright idea hunters. Welcome to the Bright Ideas
Podcast. I’m your host, Trent Dyrsmid and this is the podcast
for marketing agencies and entrepreneurs who want to discover
how to use content marketing and marketing automation to
massively boost their business.On the show today is Casey Graham, founder of The Rocket Company. I
first learned of Casey when I was at Infusionsoft’s annual
conference. His company one the annual 2013 Infusionsoft
Ultimate Marketer of the Year award. To do that, he had to beat
out some pretty impressive competition. You’re in for a real
treat with this interview.In the interview, we’re going to talk about how Casey, a couple years
ago, was essentially broke, driving around in a little red
pickup truck, and really trying to make his business a success.
Fast forward three years later – He’s got a mailing list of
47,000 people, he’s doing over $2 million a year, he and his
family are completely debt free, he’s got a wonderful team of
people helping the company continue to grow. He’s actually now
removing himself from all operational roles so he can focus more
on strategy. Like I said, this is going to be a very fantastic
interview.Before we get to that, a couple of special announcements – My tool
tip of the week is a brand new tool called PlusThis. You can
get there, if you’d like to use our affiliate link, by going to PlusThis is essentially a library of
add on tools for Infusionsoft users. One of the tools there,
for example, is the integration with GoToMeeting. One of the
things, if you’re doing webinars with GoToMeeting, wouldn’t it
be valuable for you to know who attended and who didn’t attend?
You can get that information from GoToMeeting, but you have to
manually export it from GoToMeeting and then import it to
Infusionsoft, and that creates duplicates, labor, and
inefficiencies. That is one of the many things PlusThis can
help you automate.The other announcement I wanted to make is that our next webinar on
life cycle marketing – If you haven’t yet seen one of these
webinars, they’re a huge hit because it really goes into detail.
I show what I do, and what guests on my show have done to
increase the pace at which they are attracting new customers,
which obviously makes our companies more profitable, which
allows us to invest in further growth. If you want to get
registered for one of those, just go to, join up
on the mailing list, and you’ll receive a notification of the
next time I’ve got that webinar running.Please join me in welcoming Casey to the show.Hey Casey, welcome to the show.Casey: Thanks for having me on, I appreciate it.Trent: No problem at all. First off, congratulations on your
recognition as one of the Ultimate Marketer finalists this year
for Infusionsoft, that’s quite an accomplishment to say the
least.Casey: Thank you. I’d never heard about it until a year ago, and then
we went to InfusionCon a year ago, and we saw them on stage and
decided to apply for it this year. Somehow we were able to make
it through the rigorous interview process and the cuts and all
that and be a part of all that. It was awesome. We learned a
bunch from the other guys that were finalists as well, and are
actually continuing to learn from them. I would highly
recommend being a part of the Infusionsoft Ultimate Marketer
process, just from the relationships that you build.Trent: Yeah, no kidding. Both Dustin and Andy have been on the show
as well.Casey: That’s awesome, you’re getting it done.Trent: I try to make it my effort to get all of the Ultimate Marketers
on the show now. I think you’re being a little too humble here,
you didn’t just make the grade, if I remember correctly, you
won.Casey: Our team won. Me and Michael, and The Rocket Company won the
award. It was awesome to win, and to be a part of that. I
don’t know we won, the other guys were so awesome. Dustin and
the other guys, BlueChip, they were doing so much. It was cool.
Like I said, the process – I don’t know if everybody who
listens to this in an Infusionsoft user or not, but people that
Infusionsoft should be a part of the Ultimate Marketer process,
because it helps you think through your processes, since you
have to present them to people. What it did internally for us
was great. The award was awesome, but what it did internally
was solidify a lot things that needed solidifying. I really
appreciate you giving us a shout out for that.Trent: For the folks who don’t know who you are, and I normally start
my interviews with this, but I kind of skipped it, a little bit
on purpose because I wanted to send you that congratulations.
People don’t necessarily know who you are or what The Rocket
Company is. I want you to introduce yourself in just a moment.

For the folks that are listening, the big why on why you want to
listen to interview, and I think Casey is probably going to get
into it, is he was driving around in his little red truck trying
to find customers, and was not having a real good time at it,
and I’m going to let him tell that story, and then here he is,
some amount of time later, I don’t remember if it’s a year or
two later, he’s the Infusionsoft Ultimate Marketer of the Year,
and his business has absolutely blown up, in a good way, as a
result of that. We want to get all of those things out in this
interview, and I think we’re going to do a real good job with

With that said, Casey, thanks for being on the show. Please take a
moment and tell us just a little bit about what your company is
and does, and who you are.

Casey: The Rocket Company is an online learning for pastors and church
leaders. Church leaders get caught a bunch of things in college
or seminary – It’s kind of like us, even as entrepreneurs, you
can go to business school, but then there’s all of this stuff.
People that are actually listening to podcasts now, they’re
going, “That’s great, I learned that in business school, but
what is it really?”

That’s what The Rocket Company for churches, go, “That’s great, you
learned all that stuff, and you learned some theology, you
learned something in school. There is real stuff you have to do
as a pastor, like preach better sermons, and raise money, and
deal with volunteers. The Rocket Company provides online
training, learning and coaching for pastors in that way. It’s a
totally online model, except for some live events that we do.
It’s all digital, it’s all online, and it reaches all across the
world now. We have about 5,000 customers that are connected to
The Rocket Company, and that’s the niche which Rocket Company

Very simply, why we do it is that we believe in the church and we are
trying to help the church be successful. We’re tired of pastors
preaching boring sermons, we’re tired of cheesy TV pastors
trying to raise money on TV and doing it the wrong way and
turning people off, and we’re tired of volunteers burning out in
churches because there aren’t enough. We’re creating solutions
and coaching in those areas, that’s what we currently do.

Trent: If I was to really shorten that into a super simple
explanation, you help churches become more effective at the
business side of being a church.

Casey: Yes, and no. Yes, I think that’s right in a lot of ways, but
there’s a heavy relational slant on it. It’s not just business
as usual, we help them develop the interpersonal skills to be
able to pull off raising money, volunteering, preaching, and all
that stuff. Yes, you’re right. It’s where the rubber meets the
road. Simply, when people ask us what we do – We help the
church succeed. That’s what we do, and we feel like these are
the areas that make the most impact right now.

Trent: The reason I said that is that I think that probably few, if
any of the listeners right now, are involved in the church
business. I don’t want them to click the stop button, thinking,
“Oh, this is for churches, it wouldn’t be for me,” because that
couldn’t be further from the truth as they’ll learn, as they
keep on listening to this.

Casey: Well, we’re a business that serves churches, so you should
listen because we’re [inaudible 08:55]. 86% of churches are
broke or behind budget this year. The clientele we’re serving
do not have a lot of money, and the other reason, the clientele
we’re serving don’t get a financial benefit from using our
services. If they’re giving [inaudible 09:14] to the church,
they don’t get a percentage of it, they’re not a salesperson,
their salary stays the same.

It’s all on goodwill, so it’s much harder to sell to somebody. If
somebody is buying a product and you’re increasing their income
or business revenue, they’ll keep buying from you because they
get a personal benefit. For us, it’s the complete opposite.
We’ve still been able to find success even with having niche and
as 86% of them are broke or behind budget.

Trent: How much success are you guys having? How much revenue are you
guys doing a year?

Casey: We are over two million last year, for 2012. In 2013, we’re
projected to be 2.4, 2.5.

Trent: That’s a pretty nice growth rate.

Casey: Actually, this year will probably be the slowest one on
purpose. We grew about 832% over the last three years. We went
from about $212,000 in revenue to over two million in three
years. We need to catch our breath, hire the right people, get
the right people, get the systems in place, that kind of thing,
because we just grew [inaudible 10:18] and we’re trying to
organize now.

Trent: I’m so glad you mentioned that, because that’s the story I
really wanted to dig into. Let’s go back to the red truck,
let’s go back to pre-Infusionsoft. Tell us a little about what
your life and your business was like, and how you got into this,
because you had a real struggle. I want people to understand
that anybody can go from a real struggle to where you’re at now.

Casey: Here’s the deal – I was on staff at a church. At 27 years old,
I fired myself from being the CFO of a church, and I hired
myself as the CEO of a startup company, that I was going to go
out and help churches. I had no plan, no strategy, I’d never
started a business before. Here’s what I had – A wife that
wanted to stay home with a one year old baby, that is the
hardest work you can do, but unfortunately, she doesn’t get a
paycheck for staying home. That was that, and then we have
$36,000 saved up in the bank. I said, “We’re going to go after
this, I’ve got $36,000, and I think churches need to have money
for ministry. They need to learn how to raise money better.
I’m going to go out and do it.”

We started, and we did the good old fashioned Casey driving around,
in my 1998 Red Ranger Ford pickup truck that I got as a junior
in high school, and literally going into churches and walking up
to secretaries or assistants, and say, “Hey, I want to talk to
your pastor about our services.” Just doing the old fashioned
cold calling.

Also, cold calling anybody. In fact, I would drive by churches and
see the phone number on the side, and call it. It was cold
calling, driving around doing that. I did that for about two
years, and the strategy was so amazing that second year in,
here’s what the results were – I missed dad’s night at my
daughter’s school. People listening to this may or may not have
kids, or are maybe single or whatever, but the point is this.

I started a business, not only to help people but to create autonomy
where I could be at dad’s nights, and I was missing them. I was
missing family dinners, I was traveling around the southeast to
try to get deals. We ended up being $80,000 in debt in the
business. I had a business partnership I got into. I ended up
the worst, the bottom of the barrel when it comes business is, I
had to lay off three people at one time – Not because of
anything that they did, but I just thought business was all
about sales and growth, and I wasn’t managing the back end of
the business, and it just got away from me honestly. I had to
tell the ladies – I set them down and said, “Hey, in two weeks
we’re not going to have enough money to pay you, so I’m going to
have to let you go.”

Being at the rock bottom, at that point, I literally went around the
world. I went to the Philippines. Only a dumb entrepreneur
would do this, and I said I was going to go to the Philippines
to outsource, we did some outsourcing for churches, and decided
to outsource the outsourcing to try to save money. While I was
there, literally, I can’t get all the story, but a guy climbed
through my window, it was a totally random act of violence, he
came in literally with a knife, bloody, trying to kill me,
randomly. I ended up running down 13 flights of stairs with an
armed guard in the middle of the Philippines with a machine gun,
looking up at this guy hanging off the side of a building on the
13th floor getting in there to kill me. I know this is the
craziest story you’ve ever heard.

Trent: It is a little unusual.

Casey: Here’s the point – I got so low that I was traveling around the
world trying to save a business $80,000 in debt, with a bad
business partnership, and I was rock bottom. I said, “You know
what, something’s got to change.”

In that moment, at being at the bottom, and literally being around
the world and flying back is when I started the process of
realizing the problem’s not the market, the problem’s not the
economy, the problem is not anything – The problem is me. The
way were doing it wasn’t working, and we needed some changes.
That’s what happened in the first two years of our business.

That was probably too many details, but that’s the real story of
where this thing came from.

Trent: I wish we could have got those last two sentences out to the
entire planet, because you said something there that was so
incredibly profound, that entrepreneurs say, but that few others
do – The problem wasn’t the economy or the world, or this or
that or the other thing, the problem was you. That is something
I find is unanimous in entrepreneurs, we are never the victim.
Our success and failures are always our own. As soon as you can
adopt that mindset, in my opinion, you set yourself free,
because then you’re in control and you can choose to change the
outcome, which you did, and we’re going to tell that story.

I do want to offer up one other idea. You mentioned at the beginning
of this, that you were doing it the good old fashioned way, and
then you went on to tell how you were prospecting. It may have
been old fashioned my friend, but I don’t think it was good.

Casey: That’s funny. That’s true, it was terrible.

Trent: There was nothing good about making about making cold calls,
missing your daughter’s event, and being around the world, there
was nothing good about that.

Casey: [inaudible 16:03] everybody I met said this was how to do it –
You go to leads groups, and you pass business cards out, and
this how you do it, it was the old fashioned way to try to do
this deal, and we live in a different time. I just had to learn
the hard way. That’s what the story was.

Trent: You and me both. I have often said to people in conversations,
and maybe even on my show here, that I never get it right the
first time. I always duff it the first time, and then I get it
figured out the second time around.

Let’s get into your discovery of Infusionsoft, when was that?

Casey: That was at that point, right after that trip around the world,
about three years ago, middle of 2010 – I was searching online
and I saw a donate redirect on a website I was on, and it said
Infusionsoft, and I was curious what it was, so I Googled it and
went to their website. I was low with no money, no team, I was
worn out and they’re making these promises on their website like
– Infusionsoft is like having 25 people sell for you while you
sleep. It’s automated, and all this stuff.

I thought, yeah, whatever, but it was worth me putting in my e-mail
address for the demo. I got an e-mail back late at night, and I
thought man, these people are on top of it, they work all hours
of the night. I’d never heard of an auto responder before. They
sent me e-mails, and finally got me on the phone and sold me on
Infusionsoft, and I put money where my mouth was and did things
differently. That’s how we found it.

A big transition happened though – When I used what was called the
Infusionsoft Success Coach, there was Brandon Steinwig, he got
on the phone with me, and said, “Thanks for getting in on the
call today. When are you going to send your first broadcast?”

I said, “What’s a broadcast?”

He said, “Well, that’s why you bought Infusionsoft, right?”

I said, “Well, I bought it because of all these promises.”

He said, “Let me tell you what Infusionsoft actually does. Do you
have an e-mail address?”

I said, “We have 832 e-mail address.”

“Do you have anything you can sell online?”

“I’ve got $80,000 and a red truck if someone wants it.”

He helped me understand that you can sell something online, and that
people would buy stuff that we had done, it was just sitting
around my office. I was like, “I’ve got this old seminar I did,
we just recorded it because there was a machine there, so I
recorded the three hour seminar I did for church leaders.”

He said, “All right, let’s put this on a website, let’s send an e-
mail out to them. I’ll help you write the e-mail and get things

Within a couple of days, we put it up there and I sent the e-mail out
to the 832 people I’ve never e-mailed before. I said, “Hey, I
just want you to know, I’ve been driving around doing all this
high-end consulting, here’s a $99 product you can buy right

Within the first couple of days, we sold a few thousand dollars
worth. I was like, “You have got to be kidding me. I have been
doing all this stuff, driving around, missing dad’s nights,
trying to make money, and I just sent out one e-mail and made a
few thousand dollars?”

That was the point when everything started to change, it was an aha
moment for me.

Trent: In three years you go from guy in the truck, no money, to guy
with a $2 million plus business which has a very healthy profit
margin. I hope people who are listening to this get inspired
and fired up, and think man, if this guy can go from broke,
selling to churches that have no money to this wonderfully
successful business, maybe there’s something about this whole
marketing automation stuff that I could use in my own business.
The answer of course is “Yes there is.”

Let’s try to dive into more details, and let’s talk. It all starts
with lead generation, can you tell us about the process that
you’re using for attracting and capturing leads for your

Casey: Yep. Our attraction strategy is very simple. After going
through hell and back, we said, “We can’t do everything, but we
can do something.”

When we learned about attracting traffic to our website, we said,
“Here’s what we’re going to do – Number one, we’re going to have
blog.” Everybody on this call can have a blog, and everybody
can write three times a week. If you say you don’t have enough
time to write a blog three times a week, that isn’t true, unless
you’re incapacitated and almost dying in a hospital.

Every single person can do that and add value to people who could be
their potential customers. That’s the outpost through which all
of our stuff happens. We put stuff on the blog.

Our strategy to attracting traffic is that we know where pastors are,
unlike business people, because a bunch of business people
aren’t on Twitter. Most pastors, when you speak at a
conference, say how many guys are on Twitter, 80%–I don’t know
the exact number–but it would be 8 out of 10 people would raise
their hand. That’s where pastors are, so what we said is we’re
going to dominate one thing. I know there’s Google+, I know
there’s pay per click, I know there’s SEO, I know there’s
Facebook, I know there’s all these other things, but we’re going
to dominate one thing and what we know how to dominate is

I’m on Twitter, our teen is on Twitter, we know Twitter, we know
pastors on Twitter, so that’s what we decided to do. We put all
our eggs in the Twitter basket, and so here’s what we’ve done –
We went out and found celebrity pastors that we can either buy
their time, you can rent anybody’s time, and we get them on an
online event, and we have them tweet out the links to our
landing pages. Part of them being a part of it is that they’ll
promote it, and that drives a tremendous amount of traffic to
our website.

In the last three years, with the Twitter strategy of getting famous
people to tweet to us, and for us using Twitter to generate blog
content, we’ve grown our list from 832 contacts to about 47,000
contacts in a three-year time period. That’s what we did.
That’s it, and that’s all we did. We know there’s other things
we should do, and we’re going to do those in the future, but to
start out and be simple and dominate, that’s where we started.

Trent: Man, that is impressive. 832 to 47,000, wow. I think anybody
could do this in a business, they could find out who the
celebrities are in their space or niche, contact those folks,
because they’re all looking – Did you have to pay them, or did
they come on because they wanted the exposure?

Casey: Most wanted to just help people. Most wanted that, but we paid
them anyway. What I found is that you had to pay some, it’s
just the way it is. The point was, people hear that and go,
“Oh, I don’t have anybody. I’m in the salon business, there
aren’t any salon celebrities.” Yes, there are. There are
absolutely places you can go where there are salon people that
other salon people learning from and listening to.

People say, “I’m in a retail location, what is there to do in a
retail location?”

Well, that’s why smart companies have Justin Bieber as a celebrity
that drives people to their retail locations, because they’re
renting a celebrity at the top end of their of funnel. It
associates them with that person, and that is a lead driver, a
lead attraction, a lead magnet that they can pull people in.
Every single niche has people that people listen to. If you can
align yourself and go as hard as you can to reach those people,
don’t quit because the first one tell you no, you can get
aligned with those people and they’ll help you significantly.

Trent: That’s a very good idea. I want to give a quick shout out to a
resource on this topic of defining your nice, if you got to and on the navigation bar, you’ll see the life
cycle marketing guide, scroll down through the links, and that
links to a whole bunch of articles, but in the attract interest
category or section, you’ll find an article on how and why to
define your target market. There’s a whole bunch of details
there for you.

Let’s move on. Your strategy worked exceedingly well, your list grew
like mad. Here’s the thing – Just because they’re on your list
doesn’t mean they’re whipping their credit card out and willing
to buy your stuff, right?

Casey: Totally different.

Trent: Correct. So, what happens between getting them on the list,
and getting them buying stuff. There’s something that happens
between those two things, what is that?

Casey: What we found is that–I hate to say this, I probably shouldn’t
say this but I’ll say it anyway. It’s a great way to [inaudible
24:55]. Most people try to treat this like sex on a first date.
They get somebody on their list, and then they try to close to
the deal. It’s like, come on. People do that to me all the
time. I get on a list and they’re trying to close the deal with
me. If that’s how you do real life, I’m sorry, but if you
understand that a healthy relationship is built over time and
built on trust.

Between attracting traffic and converting the sale there’s a whole
thing we call building relationships on the list so what we try
to do is build the relationship. Here’s a couple things that
have worked. I’m giving everybody practical things that you can
do. I like everybody to know that I’ve had a red truck. The
reason why, is that the only thing you remember from my
introduction speech is that I had a red truck. It’s a red

I like people to know I have a family when they come onto our list.
When we’re e-mailing our list, and we’re sending stuff out, I’m
not only introducing them to stuff that can help them, I’m also
introducing them to my family. The reason why, is that we’ve
found people trust people and have an affinity for them if
they’ve seen their family, and they see they have kids, and what
they look like. Do they look like weirdos? Are they normal
looking? Can I relate with these people? That kind of thing.
The red truck story, like a story of struggle, here’s where
we’ve been, here’s how long we’ve been doing this, that sort of

The third thing we like to send is connecting us with famous people
in our niche so that we gain credibility. If we’re sending out
e-mails or doing videos and people see you and they associate
you with the leaders. That builds credibility. Inside of that,
we’re building a healthy, what we call like a dating
relationship via e-mail, via video, and warming people up. We
don’t send people directly into a sale unless they ask for it,
if they ask for it or click on a link to buy something, they can
go buy something. For most people, we do what’s called a warm-
up sequence. We are warming them for the point in which we feel
like we can move in to take action and create a purchase, so
that’s what we do.

Trent: Let’s dive into that a little bit. Let’s say I come to your
site, and I get one of your lead magnets, I fill out the form
and give you my name and e-mail address, hit the submit button,
the first e-mail, is it going to give me just what I asked for,
“Here’s the free report,” or whatever it was? Is there going to
be anything else in that first e-mail?

Casey: The first e-mail, we’re just giving them what they ask for, but
we’re also tell them there’s more coming.

Trent: What comes next? When do you introduce the truck, the family,
and the celebrities?

Casey: That’s a great question, and it depends on where they came
from. We have a very complex business now. I’m going to start
where it was really simple. We used to do 10 emails over 30
days as our warm-up sequence. The point of those e-mails was
those different things: likeability, trust and credibility. If
say something about the red truck, it’s, “Hey, I used to drive
around the Southeast in a red truck, and here’s what I learned
about that and learned from pastors.” Then we do something very

Again, the whole thing’s not about the red truck, it’s just a mention
in a what we call a by the way moment. We’re mixing those in
throughout the 10 over 30 days, and that’s how, when we first
started, when we were selling just one program and it was a very
simple operation, that’s how we did it and we mixed a little bit
of personality in with a lot a bit of helpful content. It was
about 20% personality, 80% helpful content.

Trent: Okay, excellent. Yep, go ahead.

Brian: Key in that, we would put in the PS, “Oh, by the way, we know
you downloaded this report on church giving, we have a cool
coaching program called Giving Rocket, and you can click here
and you can go check out all of that kind of stuff.” Again, it
was there. If somebody wanted to go get it, they could. During
that first 30 days, we’re building the relationship and
nurturing them and getting them to know us and us to know them.

I’ll tell you a trick – One of the best e-mails we ever do,
especially when you’re small, and you’re trying to get off the
ground or try to grow in Internet business, just do an e-mail
that says, “Would you please reply and let me know?” [inaudible

Just ask them a question and the question and the question of what we
found out is a question about either their personal life. I
would send one with a picture of my family in it, and say, hey,
tell me about their family. I’d love to get to know you and who
you have in your family. Again, I ask them to divulge some
information to me, and I divulge some to them, when it’s a two
way street and a conversation starts, those people end up being
low hanging fruit that will buy just about anything from you.

Trent: I do something almost like that now, and you’ve given me an
idea how to improve. Anyone who’s on my list will know that in
one of my first e-mails, I say what they’re struggling with the
most, and I ask them to reply because I want to get a
conversation going with these people, and it does work. Not
everyone replies of course, but the ones that do become your . .

Casey: No, but the people that are opening and reading and engaging
do, and those people, man, those are some of the best people.
Some of them are weirdos, but a lot of them are great people.

Trent: Absolutely, I couldn’t agree more. If you don’t have an e-mail
in your warm-up sequence that says reply, you might want to
consider doing that.

I’d love to dive deeper into what you’re doing with your advanced
strategy, but I’m going to keep on keeping on here, because
we’re going to run out of time, and there’s still some other
categories of life cycle marketing I want to talk about.

Before I move on, you’ve got the 30 day warm-up sequence. What
happens the end of those 30 days?

Casey: We transition them to a webinar sequence after that. A webinar
is where we sell the most, and so after 30 days we put them into
our webinar sequence. It’s built for over a two-week period to
get them on a webinar, and to get them to hear helpful content.
About 80% help, and there’s 20% sales. Sales is woven
throughout the webinar, and that’s where we get the most sales.

What we found is that when we consistently did webinars like that,
every single month per niche topic we have, that’s where the
huge growth came from, was consistently doing new content
webinars. They got everybody on the nurture list, after they go
warmed up to us, then we got them on the nurture sequence, which
is where we’d move people to listen, buy, and hopefully become a

If they don’t become a customer, they still get helpful content, but
they’ll be invited to the webinar that happens next month. If
they come to that one, we’ll come to different topics to reach
different types of people, so that’s how that works.

Trent: In you webinars, you mentioned you weave in 20% sales
opportunities. Do you make an offer at the end of the webinar
that says, “Hey, if you want more you can go this page and you
can click this buy button and get this thing.”

Casey: Our webinars are very simple in structure. Most of them around
about 45 minutes long, and the beginning of the webinar we
always do success stories. After I introduce myself and success
stories, we tell them that’s why we have Giving Rocket. You’re
going to see a button below as I talk throughout the rest of the
webinar, and you can just click that button, and by the way, you
can click it if you want to right now and see everything that’s
listed for this webinar offer, and my voice will keep playing
because it’ll open in another tab. That’s right within the
first five minutes.

We come back as we’re doing helpful content, so we’ll say that when
it comes to fundraising, here’s something they could do. And
that’s why we did it with Giving Rocket. With Giving Rocket, not
only do we tell you what to do, we’re going to do it for you.
It’s done for you, fundraising resources. If you click the
button below, you’ll see all the stuff you get da-da-da. That’s
what’s called a by the way pitch.

Then, at about the 70% mark of the way through, we turn it and we do
about a ten minute full on explanation of what Giving Rocket is,
why we have this Rocket, how it can help them, special offers
and bonuses if they do it within the next 48 hours, click the
button below, that kind of thing. Then go back to helpful
content at the end. We found that putting it about 3/4 of the
way thorough, with pitching the by the way moment as you lead up
has worked very well for us.

We have a page, and on the page it has one button, and the button is
always below they video, and they can click it, and there’s a
special offer per webinar. That’s how we sell.

Trent: Are these webinars live, or live simulation?

Casey: No. We got away from live webinars a long time ago. I am not
a fan of live webinars. If you want to do a live webinar,
that’s great for you. I don’t like doing them for many reasons.
Ours are prerecorded and pre-done in advance, and that’s how we
do all of them. [inaudible 35:00]

Trent: I would imagine, in you particular niche, these folks have
probably never even heard of a webinar simulation, and I know
that you’re not saying these things are live, but do you say
they’re recorded, or do you just not say?

Casey: We don’t say either. We say we’re going to have a webinar at
this time, and that you can sign up and show up. Here’s what we
do: On the webinar, I’ll say, “Guys, tweet us right now at the
Rocket Co., we’ve got our teams, they’re waiting right now.”

They’re interacting with The Rocket Company on the webinar, not Casey
Graham who’s doing the webinar, or Michael Lukaszewski, my
partner who’s doing the webinar. They’re interacting with the
company, not us as a right to interaction. We still get
interaction, but it’s with the company. We always have somebody
scheduled to be available during those times do all of our
social media interaction during the webinar.

Trent: Brilliant. What software tool are you using for the recorded

Casey: I have no idea. I know that the video is on Vimeo, but I don’t
know what the technology piece is. I’m not the technology guy,
so I have no idea for that. I just record the things and send
them to our team, and they do all the technology. I’m sorry, I
hate it that I don’t know that.

Trent: That’s okay. One of the ones that is very popular, it’s by a
guy named Geoff Ronning, it’s called Stealth Seminar. It’s been
around a long time, a lot of people use it, I’ve used it in the
past. There’s another one I’m not as much of a fan of us,
because I tried it and it sucked initially, but apparently it
works quite well now, it’s called Evergreen Business Solutions,
I think what its name is.

There’s more and more of these webinar recording software platforms
that are available, so if you just Google around you’ll find all
sorts. If you type the word review after whatever name, then
you’re looking for, you’ll find people reviewing those products.
Be mindful, when you’re reading those reviews, most people are
an affiliate with that particular software platform, so read
between the lines and make sure it’s as objective as a review as

Casey: That’s good, good words.

Trent: Now we’ve got some conversions happening, we’ve captured leads
in this discussion so far, we’ve nurtured them, we have
converted them with recorded webinars – Which is brilliant by
the way, because you can put it all on autopilot. Once they buy
something, they probably might by some other stuff. In other
words, would you like fries with that?

Could you talk about what you’re doing to upsell, cross sell, and
generate repeat business?

Casey: Yes. The upsell that we’re working very hard on, which has
worked very well, is something we’re really excited about is, we
sell on CustomerHub. CustomerHub was bought by Infusionsoft.
We use it deliver all of our content.

Let me tell you why we use it deliver all of our content – It’s that,
and I didn’t know this until recently, that’s why we implemented
all of this, this is what we’re currently doing. You can one
click upsells inside of CustomerHub. People that are in there
consuming content of module one of your program, how to be a
better real estate agent or whatever, you can have a little
video on the side or inside CustomerHub, that says click this
button and you can get this da-da-da for free, because you’re
watching module one and we’re going to give you a special offer.

They go to a secondary page in CustomerHub, and it’s a one click
purchase. It says, add this to my account or I agree with this,
or whatever. It’s just one click, and it goes on their credit
card, which is on file. That has been huge, because we’ve taken
all the go get your credit card back out to customers, and we
can just create banners on the side.

Does that make sense? I know I’m beating inside the weeds here, but
one click purchase inside of CustomerHub, and if it’s not
CustomerHub, you need a solution that creates a one click
solution for repeat buyers. It’s the PayPal effect.

What I mean is that people ask me to give money all the time, but
they’re little project fundraiser things they’re going to do.
Anytime there is a PayPal button, I will click the PayPal, and I
can just enter the amount and be done with it. I don’t have to
get my credit out and all that kind of stuff. That’s how your
customers feel.

Don’t make them get their credit card out again, that works really
well. That’s number one of selling inside, it’s where your
customers are consuming content. If you’re not giving them
places to consume content, I would rethink that. I would give
them a portal or a place to consume content that also has
natural upsell opportunity in the same area. That’s just my two
cents, that’s not how we started, that’s where we are now.
That’s number one.

Number two is what we’ve done as well is the good old fashioned build
the sequence out in advance. If somebody buys core coaching
project – Let’s just keep using Giving Rocket, to help increase
church giving – We just go ahead a write a three day sale into
that sequence that happens automated whenever they get to day
78, 79, and 80, whatever those days are, and those e-mails just

It’s a three day sale for everybody in that sequence, and it’s on a
product that is related to the core coaching program of Giving
Rocket. That is the fries that come with it. It can come two
months in, we have some six months in, some 12 months in, that
kind of thing. That works really well. That’s just scheduling
e-mails in advance for people who have currently bought

The third thing we do is we upsell [them the] store. At the point of
purchase, if you’re buying this, we’ll give you 50% off this
systems bundle or whatever, because you’re buying this product.
Hit add this now, and they can just click inside the
Infusionsoft checkout and add it, and we have a lot of people
who do that. It surprises me. A lot of people, and I don’t
know the percentage, click on that and take that offer. Those
are three ways we upsell.

Trent: All right. So I want to dive in those a little bit. Let’s start
at the back, and then we’ll go backwards. The way you just
described on the Infusionsoft order form, you can very easily
put an upsell on there, is that what you’re talking about?

Casey: Not the order form, but in the store. You can’t upsell on the
order form unless there’s something we don’t know about.

Trent: You can.

Casey: You can?

Trent: You can. I do.

Casey: I need a blog post or something, I would love to do that.

Trent: I’ll just send you an example on one of my order forms, and
you’ll see. I put a little video in. My videos are hosted with
Wistia, which is a sponsor of Infusionsoft, a shout out to them,
thank you for that. It says, “Hey, here’s another thing that’s
complementary with what you just bought, if you want to add it
to your order, click the button right below.” They click the
button, it adjusts the total, and they check out.

Casey: That’s great. We want to learn from that. Ours is done in the
store, if they buy a store product, the e-commerce thing
Infusionsoft provides.

Trent: I haven’t messed with the store yet, I’ll make sure I do that.
Maybe your way is better than mine, but I’ll make sure to share
a link with you.

Casey: That’s awesome.

Trent: I’ll also put it in the show notes, this episode, so if you’re
listening to this and you want to see what the heck I’m talking
about, there will be a link in the show notes. I’ll give it to
you at the end of the show, in the post production there will be
a link to that.

One other question I wanted to ask on point number two was – You said
you built the sequence out in advance. Are you, for Giving
Rocket, dripping the content over time?

Casey: Yes.

Trent: Can you talk about little bit?

Casey: It’s 12 module program. They get one module per month. They
can unlock all the modules by paying an upfront fee with a
discount, but we still drip the content out over time. The
reason we do that is that… This is where we’re different from
a lot of Internet marketers that just want the payment and all
that stuff. We found that there is a significant amount of
customers, that if they get all the content at once, they never
do anything with it.

Trent: Yeah, it’s too much.

Casey: What we’re trying to do is to continue to market them to watch
a video, not all the videos. Even if they buy up front, we
still drip out, “Hey, did you know in module two, you can watch
all this.”

We give them benefits to pull out and that kind of thing. They’re
busy, just like us – How many times have we bought a book or a
seminar, or something. With great intentions, you listen to the
first thing and then you don’t ever do anything else with it.
It’s because they didn’t continue to sell to you after the
purchase. We keep continually selling. Go to the content now.
There’s another reason we do this as well. Guess when they go
to the CustomerHub, and they watch a video inside CustomerHub,
guess what they’re seeing on the side?

Trent: An upsell.

Casey: Getting them to consume the content again and again we found
works well for us in all the programs we sell.

Trent: Do you have an e-mail sequence that is reminding them to go
back, saying that there’s more and more content?

Casey: Yes. It drips out. There’s two e-mails a month. One says,
there’s module one, it’s available. Here’s what’s you’re going
to learn, blah, blah, blah. In the second one, we do some kind
of piece that’s helpful. For example, something like a written
version of something helpful. We also do two other e-mails a
month to our customers that we can put in our sequence that are
sales e-mails that are upsells, “Hey, you’re in Giving Rocket
month 2, but did you know that we have something called
Volunteer Rocket, and if you click this link you can just add it
on with one click, and it’s only another $49 per month, and it’s
50% for the next… whatever.” I’m making that up, 90 hours,
whatever the deal is.

You can build that stuff in, build the upselling into your e-mail
sequencing of delivering your content. Most Internet marketers,
actually none I’ve bought stuff from do that.

Trent: Brilliant. Giving Rocket is a monthly pay for 12 months,

Casey: Yup. $99 a month for 12 months.

Trent: If they want to unlock it, get it all now, what is the discount

Casey: $997. They save about $200, basically two months for free.

Trent: Very good stuff man. You’re giving me lots of what I call
golden nuggets, so love getting those.

How are we doing for time? We’re at 44 minutes. I’ve a got a few
more questions in what I call the lightning round, and I want to
ask you how you’ve changed your life from the red truck to
today. Before I get to that, is there anything I haven’t asked
you, Casey, that you think has been a huge aha for you that you
want to share?

Casey: Here’s the number one I think would say creates the
competitive advantage. If somebody comes to your McDonald’s and
plops down a Burger King, what’s the difference? If somebody
comes and does your exact business, what’s the difference?

Here’s the number one difference is that we spend an inordinate
amount of time and money building relational capital with our
customers. We don’t Infusionsoft the whole customer life cycle
marketing, to me, it’s 50% of it. The other 50% is that it’s a
care software, it’s building – We are caring for our customers
in unique ways using Infusionsoft. We are reaching out to them
and deeply caring about what’s going into their lives, who they
are, who their family is, that stuff isn’t tactics, it’s core to

For anybody in the info business, or anybody that’s trying to sell
something online, or whatever you’re doing, whoever is listening
to this, I would say that your differentiator is not your
marketing, it’s not your product, but it’s the relational
capital you have with your customers. I would build in as much
capital as possible to love, care for, take care of them and
deliver a tremendous – you can sell an average product with
great customer care, and people will love you. A good enough

Everybody tries to have the best product, but they suck at taking
care of people. Take care of people, period. We have great
customer care, great response times, great service, all that
stuff, and that’s where we put our eggs for long term. It’s not
in being a better marketer. We love being the better marketer,
but what we believe is the best is taking care of people and
treating them right.

I know everybody will agree with that, but here’s my question: If I
looked at your business budget, how much are you spending in
customer care? How much are you spending in proactive customer
care? How much are you sending direct mail to them that’s not
asking for a sell, but thanking them? How much time and money
do you spend on referral partners, thanking them for referring,
not just asking for more referrals, and really building that
side of it out? That’s where the gold is.

You see I get real passionate when I talk about that, because most
Internet market people you learn from are just about getting
paid, and getting some money out of people, and selling. Or I
live on the beach, or I’m a guy that’s just on the mountain
somewhere and I just live in my mansion and I have all these
customers that pay me millions of dollars. Well, that’s great,
but we care more about our customers than anything else so
that’s what we spend time doing. Sorry for the long answer, but
that’s my heart.

Trent: That’s okay. Can you give us an example of exactly what you’re
just explained?

Casey: Every customer that buys from us, we send a personal,
handwritten thank you note every time they buy something. When
was the last time you or anybody listening to this has bought
something off an Internet marketing website and gotten a
handwritten thank you note from somebody on the team, that’s
personalized to you and what you bought? It’s rare.

Trent: Let’s go with… never.

Casey: That’s one that everybody listening can do. What people do is
they send that crap on Twitter. They’ll go “I got a thank you
note for The Rocket Company, I just bought a $79 product, and
they sent this.” Here’s the other thing – we ship a box.

In the box, we’re The Rocket Company, so we send a bunch of finger
rockets. They’re things you shoot across the room, and they’re
awesome. We send a coffee mug and a Rocket Company t-shirt
that’s actually a cool, nice looking t-shirt that’s not a piece
of crap. We send that out and tweet that stuff, they put it on
their Facebook pages, and they say, “The Rocket Company is over
the top when it comes to customer service, I just bought this
$99 product, and they sent all this stuff to me.” That’s
practical stuff we do.

The other thing I’d say we do is, we hired Call Ruby. Have you ever
heard of Call Ruby?

Trent: No.

Casey: It’s an outsourcing company that we use that answers our
telephones for us all the time. Nobody knows it’s Call Ruby,
it’s just an answering service. When anybody calls our phone
number, we always have somebody who picks up and answers the
phone, they get routed – They may go to voicemail ultimately, or
they may go to whatever, but when they call, somebody answers.
That’s a $250 a month investment we make, and it is a huge
investment because nobody ever says that they can’t get in
touch with The Rocket Company – They won’t e-mail me back, or
answer the phones, that sort of thing. Those are practical
things we do.

Trent: These finger rockets, the coffee mug and the t-shirt, you don’t
tell them in advance they’re going to get that stuff, do you?
It’s not on the sales page, you didn’t like say hey, if you buy
this, you’re going to get a t-shirt? No.

Casey: No. It’s surprise and delight.

Trent: How has all this good stuff changed your life from the days
back of the red truck?

Casey: We went from $80,000 in debt and then I had about $200,000 in
personal debt from a mortgage. About $300,000 in total, to now
our family is debt free and business is debt free. From a
personal standpoint, we’re all out of debt. That’s huge for us,
and the reason is not so people can go, oh great, you’re out of
debt, because nobody cares if I’m out of debt.

What is cool is now that we can make better decisions, because I’m
not making business decisions on I wish I could get out of debt.
It’s allowed us to then go we can invest more money here, we
can put more money there because we’re really caring about the
business not just about trying to make a rich owner. That’s

The second thing is from a time off perspective. Obviously, driving
around in a red truck doesn’t promote much time off. You know
what, if I’m your listener – People hate when people talk about
how good their life is, but honestly, selling online and selling
recurring income online – I took four weeks off last week and
went to Belize and went on a Disney cruise, and went to the
mountains with my family for some rest and relaxation. I wasn’t
worried one bit about what was happening because I know that we
have automated processes that work. We have a great team of
people of that are helping people step off. From a time off
perspective, it’s been huge.

The other thing is that we’ve been able to help so many more people
by Casey waking up and realizing that I was the problem, and
that I couldn’t do it one at a time, this is not working, and
being willing to say that I’m going to struggle as a business
owner and I’m the problem. There’s two problems and I’m the
problem and I’m the issue. From that point of saying that it
wasn’t anyone else’s fault but mine, and saying that we’re going
to create this has allowed us to reach so many more people.

Now we have 5000 people we’re serving. I couldn’t serve five
effectively when I was driving around doing it the old way.
We’re able to accomplish our mission, and that’s where the
personal satisfaction comes. It’s not that we created an upsell
opportunity, that doesn’t make me satisfied. What makes me
satisfied is when we get the success stories back in from some
guy in Australia who says “I’ve bought you product, and here’s
what’s happening in my church,” and we get a success story
unsolicited that comes back.

We get, I think the last count was 109 success stories in the last
100 days of people, unsolicited who just come in and say, “This
is working, thank you for what you do.” That’s really the pay
off and the reward, so that’s how my life has changed.

Trent: Yeah, that’s pretty cool. All right, lightning round – Three
questions and then we’re done. What are you most excited about
Casey for what remains of 2013?

Casey: I’m most excited about getting out of all the operational roles
from Rocket Company, and I’m focusing on creating the exact same
thing we did in the church space, I’m doing in the business
space. We’re creating a place for people listening to this, for
you, for anybody who wants to create content for the life cycle
marketing thing, for any piece of it, for attracting traffic,
for building relationship, to converting the sales in webinars,
and we’re creating a high end opportunity for them to come in,
and for me and my team to be content creators and do it for them
in two days by the time they walk out of the room.

We’re excited about doing that content creation machine which is
awesome. We found that that’s a huge thing. I can create a
webinar in fours hours and have people on it in 24, some people
think that’s hard to do. It’s so easy, so we’re just going to do
it for people who need to create content that will be part of
life cycle marketing. I’m super excited about that. That’s
probably the thing I’m most excited about right now.

Trent: What’s your favorite business book?

Casey: My favorite business book is “The Advantage” by Patrick

Trent: “The Advantage”, okay. Lastly, for anyone who wants to get in
touch with you Casey, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Casey: It’s Casey

Trent: Okay. All right, man. Thank you so much for being on the show.
It’s been a fantastic interview. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I
learned some things and I hope the audience has as well. In
just a few moments, when Casey and I sign off, I will announce
on how you can get the show notes. If you have questions for me
or Casey, just go to the bottom of the post where this will all
be help, and just leave your comments there and we’ll be sure to
leave you an answer.

Thanks very much, Casey.

Casey: Thank you.

Trent: To get the show notes for today’s episode, go to When you’re there, you’ll see all the links
we’ve talking about today, plus some valuable information you
can use to ignite more growth in your business.

If you’re listening to this on your mobile phone while you’re driving
or doing whatever, just send text “Trent” to 585858 and I’m
going to give you access to the Massive Traffic Toolbox, which
is a compilation of all the very best traffic generation
strategies that have been shared with me by my many proven
experts that have been guests here on the show. As well, you’ll
also be able to get a list of all my favorite episodes that I’ve
published thus far on the blog.

And finally, if you really enjoyed this episode, please go over to, where you’ll be able to find a link to
leave us a rating in the iTunes store. I’d really appreciate it
if you’d take a moment to do that, because it helps the show
build its audience, and of course the more audience members we
have, the more we can help to massively boost their business.

That’s it for this episode, I’m your host Trent Dyrsmid, and I look
forward to seeing you in the next episode. Take care, and have
a wonderful day.

Announcer: Thanks very much for listening to the Bright Ideas
podcast. Check us out on the Web at

About Casey Graham

caseygrahamIn 2008, Casey Graham started The Rocket Company out of a passion to reach church leaders worldwide – to train, speak, coach, consult – all to help the church. With barely any money in the bank, a stay-at-home wife and a one year old daughter, he set out on a dream which almost failed a few times. Five years later, The Rocket Company is reaching thousands of church leaders and expanding its service offerings. In 2013, they won Infusionsoft’s Ultimate Marketer of the Year award and are now helping other business leaders grow their businesses. Casey lives in Atlanta with his wife and kids.

[xyz-ihs snippet=”InfusionsoftCTA”]


How to Measure Customer Engagement with Infusionsoft

When it comes to nurturing your prospects, by far the the most important thing you can to is to provide them with valuable educational content and then devote your energy to following up with those that are most engaged.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideThe challenge is to know which of your prospects are most engaged without having to actually call each and every one of them!

With traditional outbound prospecting techniques, most of our efforts are focused on following up with every prospect to ask some version of “would you like to buy now?”.

As you might guess, the effectiveness of this ‘old-school’ style of prospecting is rapidly deteriorating, because neither sales reps nor customers enjoy this type of phone call.

Worse yet, due to the manual nature of making so many calls to unqualified leads, it’s an extremely inefficient use of time!

A Much More Efficient Solution

If you are an Infusionsoft user, there is there is a much more effective way to achieve greater results with less effort (and frustration).

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done.

As you can see, this is an extremely efficient way to ensure that you are reaching out to your very best prospects for any topic or product that you have for sale.

[xyz-ihs snippet=”InfusionsoftCTA”]

[xyz-ihs snippet=”footer”]


How to Track (and Respond to) Video Engagement Using Infusionsoft

When it comes to engaging your audience online, there is no substitute for video. With video, you can do more to convey what is unique to you and your brand than you can with virtually any other form of content.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideArmed with this high level of engagement, the question then becomes: what are you going to do with it?

With traditional video analytics, such as those provided by YouTube, all you get is the number of views, if anyone has favorited, liked, or disliked it, and if they’ve left any comments, which if you chose, you can manually reply to.

What is completely lacking is any sort of ability to automate a response to viewers based upon how much of the video they watched.

A Much More Efficient Solution

If you are an Infusionsoft user, there is a new application out called Plusthis which, among other things, gives you the power to fully automate how you would like to respond to subscribers that have watched some or all of one of your videos.

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done as well as give you several examples of the types of responses that you can very easily automate.

As you can see, this is an extremely efficient way to ensure that you are reaching out to your very best prospects for any topic or product that you are using video to promote.

There are literally endless ways that you could put this type of marketing automation into productive use. Below are just a few ideas to help you get the wheels turning.

  • Product launch
  • Blog post containing video
  • Affiliate promotion
  • Customer service

Note: If you are already a Bright Ideas subscriber and you clicked a link in an email to get to this post, just watch at least 3 minutes of the above video and then check your inbox. If you aren’t yet a subscriber, become one today and never miss out on another post like this one.

[xyz-ihs snippet=”footer”]


Measuring Customer Satisfaction with a Net Promoter Score and Infusionsoft

According to Qualtrics, customer satisfaction is one of the most essential elements of customer retention, customer loyalty and product repurchase. The art and science of customer satisfaction involves strategically focusing on creating and reinforcing pleasurable experiences.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideEffective businesses focus on creating and reinforcing pleasurable experiences so that they might retain existing customers and add new ones.

Customer satisfaction matters. But where does a business get started?

How to Effectively Measure Customer Satisfaction

Measuring Customer Satisfaction is absolutely critical if you want to encourage the maximum number of referrals possible. Sadly, most small businesses don’t have a systematic way of tracking overall satisfaction.

Even worse is that fact that they have no way to receive instant notification of those who aren’t likely to spread the good word about their company, thereby leaving the unhappy customer to say whatever they like on their social networks!

When it comes to measuring customer satisfaction, one very popular method is called the Net Promoter Score.

The Net Promoter Score, or NPS®, is based on the fundamental perspective that every company’s customers can be divided into three categories: Promoters, Passives, and Detractors.

By asking one simple question — How likely is it that you would recommend [your company] to a friend or colleague? — you can track these groups and get a clear measure of your company’s performance through your customers’ eyes. Customers respond on a 0-to-10 point rating scale and are categorized as follows:

  • Promoters (score 9-10) are loyal enthusiasts who will keep buying and refer others, fueling growth.
  • Passives (score 7-8) are satisfied but unenthusiastic customers who are vulnerable to competitive offerings.
  • Detractors (score 0-6) are unhappy customers who can damage your brand and impede growth through negative word-of-mouth.

To calculate your company’s NPS, take the percentage of customers who are Promoters and subtract the percentage who are Detractors.


Image Credit:

Automatically Measure Customer Satisfaction

In the video below, I’m going to take just over 4 minutes to show you exactly how you can use Infusionsoft (affiliate link) to automatically measure your company’s Net Promoter Score.

More importantly, I’m going to show you how to configure Infusionsoft to automatically notify you whenever someone submits a score that makes them a detractor – so that you can take immediate corrective action.

How to Improve Customer Satisfaction with Infusionsoft

Improving customer satisfaction begins with talking to the customers that aren’t happy with the product or service that they have purchased from you. In the video above, I’ve shown you an extremely easy way that you can find out who these people are so that you can reach out to them.

Below, I walk you through what a campaign for measuring customer satisfaction could look like.


As you can see in the image above, customers will be routed down one of three paths (called sequences) depending on the answer they give on the web form shown below.


Once they make their selection and then complete the form, the magic of Infusionsoft takes over once again and routes them down the appropriate sequence (Promoter, Neutral, Detractor). The way this is done is via what is called a decision diamond.


Configuring a decision diamond is very easy to do. All you do is create rules that tell the diamond which way to route the user, based upon what actions they have taken; which in this example is the rating from 1 to 10.

Below is a partial screen shot of the decision diamond configuration screen.


Based upon the logic shown above, the user is now routed down the appropriate sequence.

For example, if the user had chosen a 9 on the form, they would be classified as a promoter and routed down the sequence shown below.


Had the user selected a 6 or lower, then they would have been routed down the detractor sequence, shown below.


Once you begin to track your Net Promoter Score, you are going to want to have easy access to it so that you can see at a glance the state of your overall customer satisfaction. This is easily accomplished by installing a widget onto your Infusionsoft dashboard. I’ve included a sample screenshot below.


As you can see, when you use the Net Promoter Score, combined with the automation power of Infusionsoft, you are going to have much more visibility into how your customers feel about your company’s level of service, and, perhaps more importantly, you are going to be able to instantly reach out to those that aren’t happy so that you can rectify whatever went awry before they start saying negative things about your firm on their social networks.

Additional Resources



[xyz-ihs snippet=”InfusionsoftCTA”]

[xyz-ihs snippet=”EditorialGuidelines”]

[xyz-ihs snippet=”footer”]


How to Segment Your Email List with Infusionsoft

When it comes to building a list of prospects for your product or service, by far the most important thing to do is to segment your list so that you can effectively communicate with each of your prospects as an individual, as opposed to just another subscriber.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideNot bothering to segment your list is, in my opinion, the equivalent of email marketing suicide because when you just send everything to everyone, your message relevance and open rates will suffer. As a result, the number of people that opt out of your list will also go through the roof.

How do I know? When I first started email marketing a few years ago, I was a total rookie and didn’t know anything about how to make it easy for my subscribers to segment themselves so they only receive the content and notifications that they actually want to receive. Like most rookies, I just sent everything to everyone.


How to Segment Your List Automatically

They key with segmentation is to allow your subscribers to segment themselves. This can be done directly or indirectly. In other words, you can segment by asking direct questions, or you can segment based on the actions your subscribers take.

Segmenting with Direct Questions

Direction questions work very well for segmenting. All you need do is ask your subscribers direct questions and then ask them to click links that correspond to their answers. In the video below, I show you how to do this.

Another way to use direct questions to segment your list is to allow your subscribers to choose the categories for the types of content that they would like to receive. In my case, I have a form that looks like the image below. My subscribers can update this form anytime they wish, just by clicking a link in the emails they receive from me.

Manage Email Preferences

On the backend, Infusionsoft is applying or removing tags that correspond to the check boxes on this form. When the boxes are checked or unchecked, the decision diamond (enlarged in the image below) then looks at the logic and routes the subscribers down all the appropriate sequences. Each of the sequences then are set to either apply or remove the appropriate tag.


Below is a screenshot of a portion of the decision diamond that I enlarged in the image above. As you can see, configuring the logic is pretty simple. You just click each of the blue links and then Infusionsoft will give you a choice of your available options for each rule. No programming experience is needed whatsoever.


With this automation in place, we now have lists of people who have these tags that we can send broadcast emails to when we publish new content.

For example, if a subscriber was to place a check in the box for case studies (above), then whenever we publish a new case study, only the subscribers with that tag in Infusionsoft would receive that notification.

Indirect Segmentation

With indirect segmentation, instead of asking direct questions, you are going to segment based upon your subscriber’s behavior.

For example, if you published 5 pieces of content (over time) that all revolved around the topic of lead generation and you then emailed your list each time you published a post, whenever a subscriber clicked the link in an email notification you sent them, it would be a pretty safe bet to assume that this particular subscriber was pretty interested in lead generation.

In fact, if a subscribe were to click all 5 of the links in all five of the emails, the chances that they are interested in learning more about lead generation would be extremely high.

Fortunately with Infusionsoft it is extremely easy to identify these hot prospects with something called Lead Scoring – which I will cover in more detail in an upcoming post.

Until then, just know that you can easily apply a tag for every link click that occurs, and in aggregate, the tags give you the ability to segment your list in pretty much whatever way you would like. This is made possible via the very powerful contact search capabilities that Infusionsoft has built into the CRM portion of their application (shown below).


Other Segmentation Criteria

Depending on your business, you may want also want to segment your list in a variety of other ways. This can be accomplished by adding additional questions to your lead capture forms. Just bear in mind that adding too many questions to your lead capture forms will result in diminishing returns as the more info you ask for, the lower your conversion rate will likely be.

Here are a few ideas on questions you might want answers to:

  • Industry
  • Organization Type
  • Job Function
  • Buying Frequency
  • Seniority Level
  • Education Level
  • Interest Level
  • Company Size
  • Geography

To see a more complete list, be sure and check out 27 Ways to Slice & Dice Your Email List for Better Segmentation from Hubspot.

Want to Learn More?

As important as list segmentation is, it is only one small part of an effective overall marketing strategy. The real key to running a success small business is to understand and embrace something called Lifecycle Marketing. If this is a concept that is unfamiliar to you, be sure to check out our Lifecycle Marketing Guide for Small Business as well as to register for our next webinar.

[xyz-ihs snippet=”InfusionsoftCTA”]


Bob Burg on The Five Laws of Stratospheric Success

Are you a go getter? Do you want more out of your life than you are currently achieving, but aren’t sure exactly what to change?

If you are, you are not alone.

In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast my guest on the show today is Bob Burg, co-author of the best selling book, The Go Giver, a TheGo-Giverbook that I so thoroughly enjoyed that I bought 10 extra copies to give to all my closest friends. This was one of the better business books that I’ve ever read.

When you listen to this interview, you are going to discover:

  • The five stratospheric laws of success
  • The importance of each law with specific examples of how to implement it
  • How sales skills and techniques work in concert with the laws
  • How being an author has created huge opportunities for Bob
  • How he converts his site’s traffic into customers using Infusionsoft
  • How to use marketing automation to score your leads
  • How to use lead scoring to segment your list automatically

And so much more…

Links Mentioned

Mike Michalowicz interview

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Bob Burg

BurgHeadshot2010Bob Burg is a sought-after speaker at corporate conventions and for entrepreneurial events. He has addressed audiences ranging in size from 50 to 16,000 — sharing the platform with notables including today’s top thought leaders, broadcast personalities, Olympic athletes and political leaders including a former United States President.

Although for years he was best known for his book Endless Referrals, over the past few years it’s his business parable, The Go-Giver (coauthored with John David Mann) that has captured the imagination of his readers.

It shot to #6 on The Wall Street Journal’s Business Bestsellers list just three weeks after its release and reached #9 on BusinessWeek. It’s been translated into 21 languages. It is his fourth book to sell over 250,000 copies.

Bob is an advocate, supporter and defender of the Free Enterprise system, believing that the amount of money one makes is directly proportional to how many people they serve. He is a founding and current board member of Club 100, a charitable organization focused on helping underprivileged local area youths. A lover of animals, he is a past member of the Board of Directors for Safe Harbor, which is the Humane Society of Jupiter, Florida.


Digital Marketing Strategy: How Laura Roeder Used Infusionsoft to Achieve an 8x Revenue Increase in Just Two Years

Would you like to fire all your clients and completely re-invent your business if doing so was going to give you more freedom and more profits?

Would you like to use content marketing to attract new customers?

That is exactly what Laura Roeder did.

Two years ago, Laura was a web designer, working from home earning just shy of $100,000. Today, her company is doing just over $1M, she has four employees, and she runs her company while traveling the world.

Suffice to say, she’s got a lot more freedom (and money) today than she did two years ago – thanks largely to a shift in her strategy and the use of Infusionsoft.

In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast, Laura is going to share with me exactly how she made the transformation. In our discussion, you will hear the two of us talk about:

  • how to create business fame and why it’s so important
  • how to garner the attention of major media outlets
  • her (very successful) guest posting strategy
  • how she attracted so many people to write for her blog
  • how and why she repurposes much of her content
  • how she’s built her team of superstars
  • how content marketing has played a huge role in her traffic generation
  • her business model and the software she’s using to run it
  • how she determines which courses to create and how she creates them
  • how she is working towards being more metrics driven
  • how she is using Google analytics and Kiss metrics to help her make better decisions
  • her favorite blogs
  • her favorite book
  • and so much more….

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Watch Now

Download and Listen Later

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Laura Roeder

roederLaura Roeder is a social media marketing expert who teaches small businesses how to become well-known and claim their brand online.

She is the creator of LKR Social Media Marketer and Creating Fame and author of Facebook Fame: The Facebook Marketing Bible For The Small Business.


Digital Marketing Strategy: How Yvonne Halling Used Infusionsoft to Double Her Revenue in 12 Months

Do you ever look at tools or technology for your business and think, I would love to have it, but I can’t afford it?

Do you feel like you have what it takes to make your business grow, yet, growth is still eluding you, or you are working way to hard to get it?

If you answered yes to either of these questions, you are not alone.

In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast, I’m joined by Yvonne Halling, owner of the Les Molyneux bed and breakfast in Champagne, France, and recent winner of Infusionsoft’s best in class for customer service award. After seeing that a B&B had been recognized by Infusionsoft for excellence, I just had to find out what Yvonne was doing that was so unique.

Don’t forget to check out our post Ontraport vs. Infusionsoft for comparisons and analysis.

In her and I’s discussion, you are going to hear us talk about:

  • how she doubled her revenue in just 12 months after beginning to use Infusionsoft
  • how she is using marketing automation to sell more to her guests once they’ve booked a room
  • how she is getting a top trip advisor rating from virtually every guest without having to take the time to ask
  • the ONLY two key activities that she now focuses on in her business
  • how her success lead her to create an entirely new business that provides coaching to other bed and breakfast owners
  • which two books radically altered her thinking a few years ago
  • how her new belief system is actually what lead to all the success she is experiencing
  • the content that she’s put on her site that has increased engagement with her clients exponentially
  • and so much more

It really doesn’t matter if you run a B&B or not, this interview is packed with golden nuggets that will benefit any entrepreneur who is struggling to do it all themselves.

Regardless of where you are at in the process of growing your own company, this interview is one you can’t afford to miss. Trust me.

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Watch Now

Download and Listen Later

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Yvonne Halling

I’m Yvonne Halling and I YvonneHalling run a Bed and Breakfast business.  I’m currently in the heart of the Champagne region of France, and I welcome people from all over the world, helping them to discover the hidden gems of Champagne.

I opened my B&B business in 2001, before the internet!  How life has changed since then.  If you’ve been in this business for any length of time, you’re sure to be able to relate to that.  And if you’re new to the business, then you won’t know what it was like back in the day when communication was much more limited.

I believe we are lucky to have witnessed the explosion of communication channels, which can only be a force for good.  If we embrace the changes, then we will see what great opportunities lie ahead for us all.

The Bed and Breakfast business is in a unique position now to embrace online technology and add value to our local communities in a way that simply wasn’t possible 10 or even 5 years ago.  My philosophy is that as we welcome more and more people from diverse walks of life, we have the chance to learn about and understand more human beings, bringing value to our own communities and theirs, through the sharing of our knowledge.

My business philosophy is simple:  I bring in the guests, which means that I buy more bread from the local baker, buy more meat from the local butcher, bring diners to the local restaurant, bring buyers of champagne to the local producers, bring clients to local attractions, bring employment to my cleaners, gardener and book-keeper, and give business to the local laundry service.  I buy local produce wherever possible, which supports local business, and for anyone who I trust and who has something valuable to offer, I offer their products for sale at the B&B.

This is simply how, I believe,  all businesses must operate in the 21st century, rather than the relentless quest for more and more profit.

And the funny thing is that as soon as I had adopted this philosophy, more and more profit came to me, like magic!



How to Use Infusionsoft to Increase Business Automation, Double Revenue, and Increase Customer Engagement: A Case Study with Samantha Bennett

Are you constantly thinking about how to grow your business?

Would you like to hear how one entrepreneur has been able to double her revenue without killing herself in the process?

To discover how to get more referrals, increase customer engagement, and improve business efficiency, I interview Samantha Bennett in this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast. When you listen, you are going to hear how Samantha used Infusionsoft in her business to achieve a 100% increase in revenue.

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

In this episode, I interview Samantha Bennett of The Organized Artist Company.

Watch Now

Download and Listen Later

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:


Trent: Hi there idea hunters. Thank you so much for joining me for this
episode of the Bright Ideas podcast. I’m your host, Trent Dyrsmid, and this
is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how
to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively boost
their business.On the show with me today is Samantha Bennett of the Organized Artist
Company and in this episode, she’s going to be sharing with us a couple of
really interesting ideas. The first is how she used a very unique referral
strategy to boost her business by 10% over about a four day period. The
second is her very own customer engagement strategy that results in a very
high level of open rates on her e-mails.And this is something not like anything I’ve ever seen before and finally,
in 2010, Samantha was nominated as one of the Infusionsoft Ultimate
Marketer of the Year. Or ultimate marketers of the year, I should say and
the reason that that’s going to be such an interesting part of the
interview is that Infusionsoft is a tool that she and I both use. Is a
really powerful software tool that you can use to automate all sorts of the
sales and marketing and execution portions of your business and in the
interview you’re going to learn how Samantha is doing that and the results
are pretty astounding. Her growth rate is 100% year over year and she’s
forecasting to do the same year ahead. So, please join me in welcoming
Samantha to the show.Hi, Samantha.Samantha: Hi, Trent.Trent: Thank you so much for making some time to come and do this interview
here with me. Welcome to my show.Samantha: Thank you. My pleasure. I’m happy to be here.Trent: So, I first learned of you in San Diego here where there was very
recently an Infusionsoft marketers day or some kind thing like that and you
were a case study. Or I don’t even know if case study is the right term,
but you had an awful lot of success with your business, your online
business which we’re going to talk about in just a second. And you won an
award as the Infusionsoft Marketer of the Year which is really a big deal.
Because what that demonstrates to folks in the audience don’t know what
that is, you’ve got to be really good at online marketing and sales
automation to win that award.And so when I heard that Samantha had won. I thought, especially how unique
your background and your niche is, I thought, “I really need to get
Samantha on the show.” So, Samantha, give me the. First of all, how much
revenue does your business, is it going to do this year? And how much did
it do last year?Samantha: Last year was about $50,000 or so and well into six figures for
this year. In fact, I just sent one e-mail that I believe is going to
generate $120,000.Trent: Not bad. All right.Samantha: Not bad.Trent: So, now, everyone’s wondering, “Well, what does this woman do?” And
you do some really, what I’m going to call, unusual stuff. Because for me,
like I’m your black white capitalist business kind of guy and you’re more
kind of like this artsy, fluffy, actress on stage, artist. What is it? Tell
me about your business.Samantha: That’s what I am. That’s my background. My background, talk about
anybody can do it. I do not have a background in business. I do not have a
background in computers. I do not have a background in marketing. None of
that. I know nothing about any of it. Or no training in any of it. I’m an
actor and a writer. And, about 15 years ago, I started teaching a course,
called the Get it Done Workshop. Just to help other creative people get
their work done and out there. Because it’s really hard when there’s no
quarterly review on how your novel is going. So, it’s hard to stick with
those projects. So, and then in 2009, you know when God sends you the same
postcard like eight times in a row?Trent: I do.Samantha: Okay. Fine. I had the Organized Artist Company was one of a lot
of things that I was doing and then all of the sudden, sort of everything
else, fell away. I had a bunch of projects come to their natural
conclusion. I had a couple of other things I thought were going to happen
and not happen. And I was thinking, “Oh, I guess I better get another gig.”
And then I thought, “Or I could see if I could do that Organized Artist
Company full-time.” Then I thought, “I guess I better get some business
cards.” And that year, I signed up with Infusionsoft very early, almost
right away. Much, much sooner than my business warranted it. It’s a
complicated and expensive system, and my business was that big and had no
revenue. I needed Infusionsoft to pay for itself before the American
Express bill came. There was no budget. There was nothing. There was no
safety net, nothing.Trent: Wait a minute. You mean you started this with almost no savings as
well?Samantha: Oh yeah. This whole thing has been bootstrapped . . . It’s had to
pay me. I’ve had to make a living wage off of the Organized Artist Company,
almost from day one.Trent: Wow. That’s such an important point. I hope that the people who are
listening to this . . . I have a mixture in my audience of people who are
running businesses and want to get them bigger. I also know that there’s a
meaningful portion of my audience that’s still working for somebody else,
and they have these, “I don’t know if I have enough savings. I don’t know
if I have enough of this, that, and the other thing.” Yours is a fantastic
story that you went into it with that attitude. You had the courage to do
it still. I really take my hat off to you, for that.Samantha: Thank you. Sometimes, I’m at like that event in San Diego, and I
hear other people be like, “Oh yeah. I spent $30,000 on pay per click
advertising. Oh yeah.” I’m like, “Oh. A lot of people invest in their
business? Interesting.” That would be fun. Gosh, having a marketing budget.
I should look into that. It’s true. You can do it. You can absolutely do
it. I work with creatives. I work with artists. Some people who are self-
defined as artists, they’ll say, “I’m a singer. I’m an actor. I’m a dancer.
I’m a writer. I’m a ceramicist. I’m a timpanist.” Other people who would
not say necessarily that they were professionally creative, but that they
want to be feeling more creative in their lives.Trent: Okay.

Samantha: It’s a great demographic. It’s a great group to work with. They
are really fun people.

Trent: What is it that, in case there are some of those people listening to
this and wondering, ‘How? What? What is it? What are you going to help me?’
Just explain the business model real quick. I want to make sure people have
context, because coming up, we are going to talk a lot about marketing and
conversions and opt-in pages and sales funnels, and all this stuff that’s
really important. To give context for that, at the end of the day people
are buying something from you. I don’t even know if I know what they’re
buying yet. What exactly do you sell?

Samantha: My flagship offering up until now has been a 6 week teleclass
called The Get it Done Workshop.

Trent: Okay.

Samantha: People come in with a project. They want to finish their
screenplay. They want to get an agent. They want to get back to dancing or
poetry, or whatever. They’ve got 37 projects, and they don’t know what they
want to do. They can’t decide. That’s very common. I have a lot of
questions, worksheets, and exercises because there’s not one way.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: There’s not the way. There’s not a way to be an artist, any more
than there’s a way to be an entrepreneur, or a way to be a good parent or
partner, or a good citizen. There’s just your way. It’s not like I’ve got
some incredible method, and everybody should just do things my way. I have
an incredible method for you to figure out what your incredible method is.

Trent: You have a process.

Samantha: It’s all about process and reconnecting people with their
intuition. Really getting good at listening to those half ideas. Because
especially if you put it into an entrepreneurial context, the amount of
things that you could be doing at any moment in time is endless.

Trent: Absolutely. It’s a big struggle.

Samantha: There’s the things you could be doing, the things you really have
to be doing, the things that really should have been done yesterday, the
things that really should have been taken care of three years ago. A list
is enough to make a person crazy. How do you discern? How do you decide
where am I really going to get the most return on my investment,
personally, creatively, spiritually, financially? What can I do that’s
really going to make a difference? That can be very hard to see when you
are in the middle of it.

Trent: You had to make your business pay, right from the start. You were
your own student. In other words, you created this, I’m guessing to a
certain degree, to scratch your own itch, which is why I created Bright
Ideas. I love talking to people like you, because every time I do, I get a
free hour of consulting. I get a little smarter. Let’s talk a little bit
before we get into all this sales automation stuff, that’s going to be the
bulk of our conversation today. You are there, and you are thinking, “Hey.
I want to do this creative artist company. I want to do it full time. I
need to deploy Infusionsoft. I need to come up with marketing. I need to
create my information product. I got to do a sales pitch. I got to, got to,
got to, etc.” How did you figure it all out?

Samantha: Very slowly and one teeny-tiny step at a time.

Trent: But wait a minute. You’re in a hurry. You got to generate cash flow.
You got to make sales. Panic! Panic! Panic!

Samantha: Yeah. The first thing I did was I chained myself to the desk and
made myself learn Infusionsoft. Like I said, I didn’t have any real
background in this kind of thing and I knew I needed to learn it, and this
is back in 2009 when, frankly, it was a lot harder to learn.

Trent: Yeah. That’s how it earned its nickname, Confusionsoft, perhaps.

Samantha: Yeah. Exactly. I just really buckled down and made myself learn
it. That was step 1, as I sort of dove right into the software right away
and got a sense of what it could do and what could happen with it.

Trent: How long did that take? How long did you dive into that particular
phase? Because, again, I’m still thinking, “Revenue! Revenue! Got to make a
sale! Got to make a sale! Got to get the cash coming in!” So how long did
you allow yourself to dive into that?

Samantha: I spent four straight days learning it, and then it’s an ongoing
and uphill climb since then.

Trent: You’re watching training videos and you’re mucking around and trying
to set stuff up, or what were those four days?

Samantha: There weren’t any training videos.

Trent: Back then there wasn’t any? Okay.

Samantha: There weren’t any training videos. [inaudible 00:11:20]

Trent: There are lots of training videos now.

Samantha: There are lots of training videos now and they are excellent.
Yeah. Yeah. I just made myself do it. Then I just started sending

Trent: You had a bit of a… That’s right. Because you had done this, you’d
been doing this [part-timers], so you had a little bit of a list. Is that

Samantha: Yeah. I had about 700 people on my list. A lot of them were
friends and family, like everybody when they are first starting out.

Trent: Yeah, absolutely. They were just there to support you?

Samantha: Yeah. That’s why I had gotten Infusionsoft to begin with because
every time I offered one of these classes, and at that time I was still
offering them live, I wasn’t doing teleclasses yet, I was sort of hand-
sorting my list. I’m going through the marketing thing going, “Okay, I
should send it to that person. I think that person lives in Chicago. Yeah,
I should send it to that person. I think that person already took this. Who
is that person?” My list was outgrowing my brain.

The other thing I’d learned how to figure out how to do right away was put
up a little web form and it honestly said, “Stay in touch with me.” I
didn’t have a lead magnet. I didn’t have anything. It just said, “Stay in
touch” or “Join my list” or something really lame like that. The first time
a total stranger joined my list, I was like, “[inaudible 00:12:38]. It

So, yeah. I just started the broadcast. I started with a little web form.
It was another year or so before I even added the shopping cart
functionality. I was just going on PayPal [buttons]. Yeah.

Trent: Okay. I love this because I really hope that the people who are
listening to this interview, who maybe haven’t taken the plunge yet, are
going to find inspiration in your story. You thought, “All right, step 1,
forget everything else. I’m just going to learn about Infusionsoft. To the
exclusion of everything else in my consciousness, I’m going to focus on
this one task and thereby eliminating that level of overwhelm that we often
suffer from.” You get a little handle on that, you thought, “Okay. Well,
I’m going to build a web form.”

Samantha: Right.

Trent: “Now I’m going to send an e-mail. One step. One step.”

Samantha: Right.

Trent: So what did the first e-mail say? Did you make revenue off that
first e-mail?

Samantha: I don’t know that I did. Do you know where it really slipped from
me? Honestly, I wrote a poem called “In Praise of the Capable”.

Trent: Yeah. All Internet marketers write poems, definitely.

Samantha: I’m here to tell you. I sent it out. At first I wrote it just for
fun and I sent it out to a couple of friends and they really liked it. I
thought, “Oh, well, this is sort of cute. I’ll send it to the list. Now I
have this list. I should send them something, so I’ll send them this

I got this avalanche of response back. People really felt like I had
written it for them. They really wanted to communicate back with me about
how much it had meant to them. That was when it tipped for me that this
thing that could seem cold or mechanical or manipulative was actually a
device to communicate very personally with a lot of people.

Trent: Yes. Yes.

Samantha: So now my initial follow-up sequence, and this is what got me the
ultimate marketer finalist in 2010, is… Right to this day, if you sign up
on, the first bunch of stuff you’ll get is a
bunch of poems. There’s the Praise of the Capable, the Ode to the
Overwhelmed, there’s one for the entrepreneur, There’s one for the grouchy.
And, by the time, people get three or four of these, like they feel like I
am their sister.

And, what I love about this is exactly what you said. There is not a
business book in the world that says, here’s what you do. Write a bunch of
poems. That’s the ticket to profit. But, because of who I am and because of
who my people are, it’s just makes me a welcome guest in their e-mail box.
It makes them feel like I know that, like I understand where they’re at.
And so when I do try and sell them something, which I don’t do that often.
The response is huge.

Every time I do a JV offering, every time I offer something, the response,
I get these calls like, “What is your list? They’re so responsive.” I’m
like, “I know. Because they trust me.” And they get excited. They see
something in their box from me and they’re happy about it.

Trent: And nobody else is doing it.

Samantha: No higher compliment can a marketer get.

Trent: Yeah. Nobody else is doing what you’re doing, either. You’re off
sounding so much different than what everyone else has got to be sounding
like. I’ve got to think that really works for you. Let’s go into a number
here. Do you know what your open rate is on your typical e-mail broadcasts?

Samantha: I don’t know. We all know the open rate is not a reliable number,

Trent: Why?

Samantha: It’s one of the worse metrics we have because when people open
something on their smartphone it doesn’t count as an open. That little one
pixel bing, bing, bing.

Trent: Really?

Samantha: Let’s somebody know that it’s open doesn’t happen.

Trent: I didn’t know that.

Samantha: So this doesn’t count as an open and when people are looking at
something in their Outlook or their Apple.

Trent: Preview.

Samantha: You just scroll through things like delete, delete, delete. That
does count as an open. Even though nobody’s actually looked at it.

Trent: Oh, wow. Okay.

Samantha:. So that number is not a good, not a reliable number. It is
however, the only number we have to start with. So, yeah, my open rates are
usually between 16% and 35%.

Trent: Okay.

Samantha: Something like that.

Trent: So, that’s still a pretty healthy, for inaccurate number, it’s still
a pretty healthy open rate. Now, by the way, just a little quick, maybe
it’s a take away for you, I use on my sites and I just started to use this.
There’s a plugin called iMember360 which very tightly integrates. Do you
use it?

Samantha: I don’t. I have customer help.

Trent: Okay.

Samantha: But I know.

Trent: Very tightly integrated with Infusionsoft and you can apply a tag
just when someone views a page.

Samantha: Well, you know the new.

Trent: Well, hello, kitty cat.

Samantha: The new, the latest version of Infusionsoft, the one from the
spring release, there’s web analytics in Infusionsoft.

Trent: Yeah, there is.

Samantha: So you want to put.

Trent: You’re right.

Samantha: And it will create, it creates a visitor record for everybody who
visits your page and if they then become a contact, it will still have all
the records of every page they visited. You want to get that snippet and
put it on every page you have.

Trent: But do you, where I was going with my comment, is there a better
number for the open rate? Like can you say, “This is how many people viewed
this page from this e-mail.” And I guess there’s lots of different ways to
do this. You can use.

Samantha: Oh, I just track that off of clicks. To make the link to the page
a clickable link and then just track.

Trent: Absolutely.

Samantha: My clicking rates great. My conversion rate is great.

Trent: That’s another way. Okay. So, let’s get into some more marketer’s
nuts and bolts as it were. So, let’s talk a little bit about your sale.
First, let’s talk about how people find you.

Samantha: Right now, they find me almost exclusively by looking for me. My
Google Analytics are all about Samantha Bennett, the Organized Artist
Company. Samantha Bennett, Organized. Samantha Bennett, get organized
artist. Like the people, it’s really people who are looking for me. So, I
have, while I have thesis on my site, so I’m sort of automatically
optimized for SEO, I haven’t done any deliberate SEO activity. It’s on the
list. You know.

Trent: I know when I typed in Samantha Bennett. You come up first. I think
your site the Organized Artist company comes first. So, therefore Google
thinks that you are the most important Samantha Bennett in the entire

Samantha: Well, that’s good because there’s a couple of us out there,
actually. There’s a writer.

Trent: I’m sure there is.

Samantha: There’s a journalist in Pittsburgh. There’s a couple of Samantha
Bennetts out there with a profile but you should always come up first for
your own name. So, that’s another tip for marketers out there. If for some
reason, you are not showing up first for your own name, fix that.

Trent: What if you are John Smith? That’s harder to do.

Samantha: Become John Fabulosity Smith.

Trent: All right. People find you predominantly, it sounds like, word of
mouth. They’ve heard of you in some way, shape, or form, which is the
natural by-product of when you have content that people love. When you have

Samantha: That’s it. The e-mails are very formidable to those poems, and
the stuff I write about, creative inspiration, and staying motivated. It’s
content people love to send to their friends or their sisters.

Trent: Let’s jump into another nugget, then. In the Infusionsoft e-mail
builder, there’s a share bar, a social networking share bar. I didn’t learn
this until the day that I met you. I want to know if you do this. If
someone receives an e-mail, and they want to share it on their social
network, Infusionsoft puts that content on an Infusionsoft hosted page, and
to the right of it you can have an opt-in form.

Samantha: That’s right. You have to tell it you want that form. You can
have the form on the right or left of the e-mail, but that’s absolutely

Trent: Is that something that you do?

Samantha: Every time.

Trent: Every time. Okay.

Samantha: Yeah. Yeah. In fact, now I almost don’t send out an e-mail
without a link to a form. It doesn’t get used all that often, but I want
people to have the option if it’s there.

Trent: Okay. I just learned about that, so I haven’t done it a bunch. Is
there an easy way to get analytics on how many opt-ins you are getting, as
a percentage of how many e-mails were shared, or that kind of thing?

Samantha: You just tag off the form, submissions on the form.

Trent: Yeah. I guess you could. That would be a unique tag. You could
create a tag for that particular e-mail and that particular form. Then, you
would know. Okay.

Samantha: Yeah. Speaking of tagging, whatever your tagging protocol is,
have a tagging protocol. Have a way that you do it every time. For me, I
put dates on everything.

Trent: How about you give us an example?

Samantha: If I sent out an e-mail today about a beautiful sun shiny day, it
would say, “Beautiful day.” It might say, “Content only.” If it was in
regards to a class, I might have something else in there about the class.
Then, it would have today’s date at the end.

Trent: Okay.

Samantha: I tag everything. If people do something, I want to know about

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: I’ve got tags from when I first started that say, “Workshop.”

Trent: In hindsight, it means nothing.

Samantha: Try 700 workshops that I have no idea what that’s about. It says
, “Workshop. February 2009,” I’m like, okay. I had some idea that that’s
the last time somebody clicked, they’re not that interested.

Trent: Did you learn that, by chance, from Jermaine Griggs? Or did you just
think, “Hey. This tagging stuff is the coolest thing ever. I’m going to go

Samantha: It was the tagging thing is the coolest thing ever, I might as
well go nuts. Jermaine makes me look like a child, in terms of tagging.
Jermaine’s system is so beautiful and precise. The man is a twisted,
twisted genius. I love it.

Trent: Yeah. I want to get him on the show, definitely.

Samantha: Yeah. He’s brilliant.

Trent: For people who are not using Infusionsoft yet and don’t know what we
are talking about, can you just please tell us what this tagging thing is
all about?

Samantha: Yeah. Infusionsoft is an e-mail marketing machine, like MailChimp
or Constant Contact or iContact, any of those things that you might be
using. It’s also a customer database management system. They talk to each
other. You can create an e-mail, and in each e-mail you can say, “Click
here to read my blog. Click here to find out more about this workshop.
Click here to get the free PDF.” Whatever it is that you are offering. In
Infusionsoft, you can tell that link not only where it goes, but you can
tell the system to apply a tag anytime somebody clicks that link. I can
see. It’s a great way to measure engagement.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: You really want to get people used to clicking on your e-mails,
partly for sales purposes. You just want them in the habit of clicking, so
then when you’re selling them something, they are in the habit of clicking.
It doesn’t feel weird to them to click and be taken to a page. Also, for
the Internet service providers, that’s one of the ways they gauge whether
or not your stuff goes in the spam box or not. It’s not just does it get
opened, but is there engagement. Are people clicking on it? Are they
forwarding it? Are they saving it? Are they flagging it? Are they putting
it in a file? That’s one of the ways that you stay out of the trash bin.

Trent: Yes. I didn’t think of that. Very good. Again, just in case folks
still don’t get this clearly, tagging is just a means of categorizing
people, or making a notation on their file as it were, based upon an action
that they took that you asked them to take.

Samantha: That’s exactly right; just slapping a post-it on somebody. They
did this; they did that; they did this; they’re interested in that. So that
then you can really target your marketing. And, again, this is a great way
to get a really high response rate. You don’t want to be selling cat food
to the dog people or dog food to the cat people. You want them to segment
themselves a little bit so you know who is interested in what. Then you can
really be sending specific stuff to specific people.

One of my favorite ways to use Infusionsoft is this; if I send out a
broadcast for example, about a class, and there’s a certain number of
people who open and click, and there’s a certain number of people who
register, the people who click but don’t register, I send them another e-
mail almost right away. Because I don’t want to pester the people who
haven’t opened and haven’t clicked because they’re not interested. I might
send them a second one in a couple of days but I don’t want to be all up in
their grill about it.

But the people who have clicked but not registered, they’re interested.
They’re warm, they’re ready and they just need a little nudge. So I send
them a little nudge.

Trent: Give me an example of a nudge. What does a nudge look like?

Samantha: Just a little, “Hey, I forgot to say, there’s going to be a
special something on this teleclass” or “Wait until you hear me talk about
thus and such . . .”

Trent: So you don’t write them and say, “Hey, I noticed you clicked my link
but you didn’t buy.”

Samantha: No, because I think that’s creepy.

Trent: And especially in the artist’s community; they’re not going to know
anything about this stuff so they’re not going to know that we have this
level of visibility into their mouse clicks.

Samantha: Right. That’s right. But you can say, “I think you’re interested
in . . .” or “I really think you might be interested in this course.”

Trent: I love what you said though: “Oh, I forgot to mention . . .” and
throw in another benefit. I think that’s brilliant. It’s authentic because
you can plan to forget something and that’s just good marketing.

Samantha: In the same way, if you were trying to talk somebody into going
to the movies with you; you’d say, “Oh no, it’s a good movie. You should
come with me. You know what, I didn’t even tell you this, and I’ll give you
a ride. How about that?”

Trent: Great metaphor. So they’re like, “Yeah, all right, I’ll come.” Then
they go to the movie and say, “Hey, you know what Sam. Thanks so much for
getting me to that movie. I had a really great time. That was awesome. It
was a good movie.”

Samantha: But be careful because it is your reputation. If you take someone
to a bad movie, they will never let you forget it.

Trent: I was just going to say, and it feeds right in to what you just
said, if you really believe in your stuff, like you really believe in a
movie, you almost have the obligation to do everything that you can to get
them there, because you know that they’re going to have a positive
experience. Why would you not want to have people do that?

Samantha: Exactly.

Trent: Let’s go back to your sales funnel. So they find you, they come to
your site. It all starts with a lead magnet. I’m looking at your site right
now. The side bar, is that the primary place where people opt in?

Samantha: Yep. You want to have it above the fold, right there in the upper-
right. That’s where most people look for it these days. So you want to have
it right there, very easy and visible. Right now, mine’s usually a free
recording, a free webinar. I think the one that is up right now is called
Ready Set Um. It’s about moving from having a great idea to actually being
in action around your great ideas.

Then they hear from me quite a bit in those first couple of days. This is
all Infusionsoft doing this for me automatically – I am at the beach. It
automatically sends a double opt-in e-mail. It automatically sends them a
welcome e-mail. It sends them that free thing that they’ve signed up for,
whatever that is. It sends them a poem; the next day it sends them
something else. Three days later it sends them something else.

These are almost all content e-mails. There might be a little Johnson Box
or something in them that says, “Oh, they got it done. Home study kits
available,” or “You can buy the book of poems, if you feel like it.” But
it’s very low-key. And it’s actually one of things that I’m trying to work
on; I tend to have the selling style that’s a little like, “Um, you know,
there’s a thing, if you want . . . you could . . .” I think, sometimes, I
need to be a little more aggressive in my selling. But initially not.

It’s a lot of content; it’s a lot of feel-good stuff. I’ve had people ask
me, “Do you worry about turning people off by sending them so much stuff in
the first couple of days?” I don’t worry about that for a couple of
reasons. One, I figure you have about 36 hours before somebody forgets that
they have ever heard of you, been to your website, signed up for anything,
seen you, ever had any interest in anything you ever did. So I really want
them to know right away, like, “Hi! Hi! Sam Bennett, you signed up! Hi!
Remember me the day you signed? You were there, I’m typing in your name,
I’m not spam, swear to God!”

So that’s one reason, is I really want to cement for them that this is
something they’ve requested. But also, I’m kind of an overcommunicator, you
know? You’re going to hear from me, and if that bothers you, you should get
off my list sooner rather than later. God bless the unsubscribes. Go find
your people.

Trent: That’s such an important point. I interviewed a gal by the name of
[Jamie Tardy] a couple of days ago, and we talked so much about that, and
then we talked about a guy by the name of [Derrick Halpern], who I had a
very nice conversation with on Friday…

Samantha: Yeah, he’s a smart guy, that guy.

Trent: Both of whom are super, super smart marketers, and they’re, they,
much like me, believe that you need to figure out who your audience really,
really is, and to heck with everybody else. Trying to please, trying to
please everybody is insane.

Samantha: It’s, first of all, it would be creepy.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: If everybody liked what you did, that would be weird.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: You don’t want that. You want a small, passionate group.

Trent: Yep. I heard, and I don’t remember where I heard it, but it was in
the music scene, and it was basically, if you can have an audience of rabid
followers, you only need a thousand people, and as a band, you could make a
living off of that. Only a thousand.

Samantha: Absolutely.

Trent: And so many people are focused on, I need 50,000 or 100,000 or 5
million or whatever, and they’re trying to be, trying to appease everybody,
and in doing so, they’re appealing to nobody.

Samantha: Well, exactly. And, you hear a lot of this, you know, my list
size poker, well, my list is this big, and my list is that big. It’s like,
okay. I’m sure it is. But again, I’m much more interested in clicks and

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: I don’t want to know how big your list is. I want to know how
many of those people are clicking, forwarding, signing up.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: Just another fun little metric, and this is something, again,
that if your Infusionsoft people aren’t doing, they should be, and if
people who aren’t Infusionsoft people, you can probably do this without
Infusionsoft if you have a little bit of JavaScripting.

There’s a function on the, in the lists, in the link filter in Infusionsoft
where you say wanted the link to link to this webpage, or this in this case
a form, web form that says, “Hey, sign up for a free class,” and then
there’s a little box of “other” and it opens up a few more options, and one
of those options is “Pass this person’s information along at the end of the
link,” then it says, “For Techies.”

And what that means is that it takes the person’s first name and e-mail
address, and passes it to the web form. So they go to a web form that is
pre-filled out for them. I have had conversion rates of over 100% for a pre-

Trent: How is that possible?

Samantha: Because… Yeah, I know. I did the math a couple of times.
Because if people go to the form, it’s already, they don’t have to type
their name and e-mail, it’s already filled out for them. All you have to do
is press the big red button that says, “Sure, sign me up,” and they go
sure, sign me up, and then they forward it to a friend.

Trent: Oh. That’s how you got over 100%.

Samantha: That’s how you get over 100%.

Trent: Okay. Fantastic. That is a brilliant idea. So people come to your
site, they enter into the sales funnel, you communicate a lot in the first
36 hours. You’ve not generated any revenue yet. You’ve built some
credibility, relationship, and trust.

Samantha: Yep.

Trent: Now what happens?

Samantha: Well that’s, that’s 90% of the game. I mean, that’s 90% of what I
do it’s just keep them warm. Keep them supported, keep them feeling
connected to me. I write articles, I answer advice columns and then a
couple times a year I offer a class, and so a couple times a year I do
affiliate offers, and I’m just really straightforward about it. I say I’m
offering this class, and if you’re the kind and if you’re thinking that you
should do it, then you should do it.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: And then I offer a satisfaction guarantee or your money
cheerfully refunded. Most of my stuff is very low-cost. The only thing
that’s not low-cost is working with me one-on-one, working privately, but I
have a membership site that’s really cheap. I have these home study kits
that aren’t very expensive. When I do affiliate mailings, I’m very straight
forward about that. I’m like, “This is my friend. They are offering a thing
that I think is really cool.” They are actually my friend. I don’t do it
for people I don’t know.

Trent: That you don’t know. Yeah.

Samantha: The sort of recurrent thing that we keep coming back to here is
treat your list like they’re your friends.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: There’s all kinds of tricks and strategies and stuff. There’s
tricks and strategies to friendship too. If you gave me a necklace, and I
knew we were going to dinner, I might where the necklace you gave me.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: So that you could go, “Oh. I gave you that necklace.” I go,
“Yeah. I know. I love you. We have this thing together.” Is that
manipulative? Maybe a little bit.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: But it’s also a warm, loving, and considerate thing to do.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: That’s really what I think about, when I think about marketing.
There’s a lot of tricks and strategies and games, and things you can do.
The fact of the matter is that people are going to do what they are going
to do, when they’re going to do it, and not one second sooner. Not for love
or money, same as you. Nobody can make you buy anything. Nobody can make
you interested in something you are not interested in.

All you can do as a marketer is just stand there in as genuine a way as
possible, just going, “Hi. I’m doing that thing. That thing that I said I
was doing. I’m still doing that. You know anybody who needs the thing, I’m
the one doing that.” When you put out this clear, authentic and consistent
message about the truth of who you are, and what you do, you become like
the whistle only dogs can hear. Your people start to find you.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: Again, those people who are not interested in you, who are not
good clients for you, who are not good customers for you, will not find
you. That’s almost as important.

Trent: Wise words. Very, very wise words. A couple more things I want to
cover off before we finish up this interview. One of them is you ran this
referral strategy. We are going to save that for last, because that was
pretty awesome.

Samantha: That was pretty cool.

Trent: I think you said you grew your list by 10% in a week, or something
like that.

Samantha: 4 days. Yep.

Trent: 4 days. We are going to get into a little bit more detail on that
one. I want to go back to your product for a minute, for a little bit. For
the folks who are listening to this and just want to get organized, let’s
give them something. What do you see as the number one mistake that people
make? When they have that pile of all the things that they need to do to
accomplish whatever their project is, screenplay, book, business, whatever
it is, what’s the number one thing, hopefully there is a number one thing,
that you see most commonly as the big mistake?

Samantha: The big mistake is thinking about everything all at once and
getting overwhelmed, and quitting before you even start because you feel so
overwhelmed. The number one strategy I have, and listen carefully to me
when I say this because the clients and students I have who employ this
strategy, see amazing results, sort of jaw-dropping miraculous results. The
clients and students I have who do not employ this strategy, some have
amazing results, and some don’t.

Trent: Okay.

Samantha: Here it is. This is not unique to me. I didn’t make this strategy
up, but I’m a big proponent of it. 15 minutes every day, before you check
your e-mail, before you check your e-mail, before you check your e-mail.

Trent: So after my e-mail?

Samantha: Spend a few minutes on the projects that matter most to you.

Trent: Sorry. I’m sorry I shouldn’t have said anything. Please say that

Samantha: Spend 15 minutes a day on the projects that matter most to you.

Trent: Okay. Focus. Really, that boils down to focus.

Samantha: Daily chipping away at it.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: You sort of feel like 15 minutes, that’s not going to help. It’s
amazing what you can get done in 15 minutes. It’s amazing what happens when
you spend 15 minutes every day for a week, a month, a year, 2 years, 10
years. There’s something about claiming that time and space for yourself,
and for the work that matters most to you, that has a really lovely effect
on your life. It’s a little like when you go to work out in the morning.
You spend the rest of the day like, “I’m so awesome. I went to the gym

Trent: Yep. Yep.

Samantha: It’s a little bit of the moral high ground like that. You just
feel great. We know it’s true. If you spend 15 minutes a day practicing
guitar, it wouldn’t be very much time before you were a much better guitar
player. 15 minutes a day to work on your novel, 15 minutes a day
strengthening your core, 15 minutes a day looking for the perfect life
partner, whatever it is that you’re thinking, “Wow, if this were
accomplished, I think my life [inaudible 00:40:19]. You have that control.
I know we don’t control everything about our lives, and there’s a lot of
other people’s fingerprints all over us, I get that, but you have 15

Trent: Yes, you do. And I want to just jump on the piggy-back on that, and
say that that’s the strategy that I try and do. I try to not check my e-
mail till around four in the afternoon, because you know what? It’ll still
be there waiting for me. If I get sucked into e-mail early, the whole day
is maybe one-third or less as productive as if I can maintain what’s
supposed to be my daily routine, plan my day the night before, think about
what are the key drivers to move me closer to this project’s completion,
and then to the exclusion of everything else, I focus on just those things.

Samantha: Yeah.

Trent: It makes a huge difference.

Samantha: It makes a huge difference, and this is why we created our own
businesses, right?

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: So that we could be the boss, so that we could determine how we
spend our time, and to give up that control is mind-boggling to me. Why
would you create your own business and then work yourself harder and
stupider than any boss ever would?

Trent: I’ll tell you why. Because people aren’t organized, and they don’t
prioritize. They get overwhelmed. There’s all, there’s a lot of noise.

Samantha: And it’s hard. I mean, it’s really, really hard. It’s no joke,
man, it’s a lot of hard work, it’s a lot of time, and particularly writing
and I think copywriting, good copy, is the key to success, something you
certainly need in marketing, certainly in Internet marketing, I think you
can make videos, you can make audios, there’s other ways to communicate
with people, but predominantly, we use the written word, and to get really
good at that takes a lot of time. To find your authentic voice takes a lot
of time. To really target in on your niche audience takes time. But then
when you’ve built it, it’s yours.

Trent: Absolutely. Here, here. And then some of us will get to the level of
somebody like Jermaine Griggs, who, and I have not met or spoken to
Jermaine, perhaps you probably have, but I know in his messaging videos and
so forth, he at least tells the story, that he has a fair amount of free
time because he was willing to invest the time to learn how to run
Infusionsoft so that the level of automation in his business if phenomenal.

Samantha: It’s jaw-dropping, what he’s created. I mean, it’s beautiful.
It’s really beautiful.

Trent: I think he’s doing, like, 10 million bucks a year, somewhere around
that range.

Samantha: Yeah, and he really does. He works four works a week.

Trent: Wow. Very nice. So, for those of you who are listening and you’re
wondering what’s all the fuss about. Hopefully, that will give you some
idea of what all the fuss is about. That’s where we’re all trying to get

Samantha: And become a hundredaire. Don’t start trying to work four hours a
week and make ten million dollars. Start trying to make an extra hundred
bucks this month.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: Well, see what happens.

Trent: So let’s get into, let’s close up on this, because I know we’re even
closing in on an hour now, and I want to try and keep this as close to an
hour as we can. Tell us about this super-duper referral strategy, the thing
that you did that got you, what, 10% or 11% risk growth, like another, I
mean, that’s a big number. If you can take however many subscribers you
got, and grow it by 10% in four days, clearly you did something that worked
well. Tell us about that.

Samantha: Yeah, and this was, I have to actually give a lot of the credit
to Mr. Jordan Hatch, who’s the Head of Training for Infusionsoft and, like,
another sick, twisted genius, and a very lovable person. He’s the
mastermind of webinars for Infusionsoft, and he and I were talking. He had
an idea he wanted to test out, and I had an idea I wanted to test out, so
we got together, and I could never have done this without Jordan, because I
don’t have the technical . . . I wouldn’t have known how to do it.

But what happened was this. I had a project I was launching called the
Procrastination Domination Starter Kit, right, it’s a $47 webinar, great
little product, very tight. So I sent an e-mail to my list that said, “Big
News! Launching the Procrastination Domination Starter Kit, $47. If you
want to buy it right now, $27. Special Introductory offer, $27, click here
to buy now.” That just took them to an order form to buy it, and a lot of
people did that.

If you would like to get this for free, refer three friends. You’ll get the
Procrastination Domination Starter Kit for free. They get an e-book that I
wrote called 365 Reasons to Write, and I get to triple my list. Fun for
everybody. So the people who selected that, they clicked on it, that click,
the first thing I did in Infusionsoft was make everybody, everybody on my
list a referral partner for a program I called Refer-A-Friend. Now this was
a referral program with no commission payout, no nothing. I just needed to
be able to track who came from whom.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: Okay, so that was the thing that happened, was everybody became a
referral partner without even them knowing it, and then in everybody’s e-
mail, their link was personalized with their affiliate code. Again, this is
part of the magic of Infusion software. It can do this for you.

So, they click on that, it takes them to a web form that pre-fills in their
name and e-mail address, and asks for their friend’s name and e-mail
address. And then the, okay, yes, please send this to my friend, this
person. Takes them to, normally you fill out the web form and it takes them
to a success page that says “Thanks so much for filling out our form” or
something like that.

The success page, however, was a second web form, almost a clone of the
first one, that said, “Please tell us friend number two’s name and e-mail
address,” submit. Please tell us friend number three’s name and e-mail
address. Submit. The final page had, “Here’s your free, here’s where to go
to get your free thing. Thank you so much.” I also sent them an e-mail that
said, “Here’s your free thing, just in case you didn’t get it from the
success page.”

Now, each of those three friends got an e-mail that said, “Hello, contact
first name, your friend, referring affiliate’s first name, thought you
might like this.” So, “Hey, Trent, your friend Samantha thought you might
like this information from the organized artist company,” and then they got
a little e-mail that said, “Hi, I’m Samantha Bennett, your friend so-and-so
put you on this thing, if you would like to join my list, you can get this
free, 365 Reasons to Write, just click here. If you don’t want to be on my
list, no pressure, you’ll never hear from me again. Don’t worry about it.

Trent: Very, very cool. Did those new people also go through the refer-a-
friend process?

Samantha: They didn’t. They could, I could put it on some kind of a loop. I
wouldn’t want to do it to them right away. I would probably want to keep
them on my list for a little while.

Trent: Yeah. Because I thought about that after I talked to you, after I
heard you explain this. I thought, well, why not make the same offer to
everyone that drops into your list? Why not say, “Hey, if you want to refer
one more person, I have an extra special prize for you, or reward, or
whatever, a piece of content, something.

Samantha: Yeah. You could absolutely, and there is actually two other
things that sort of kept it, kind of speak to what you’re saying. The, I
got e-mails from the people who were referring, the people who were already
on my list, saying well, I want a copy of the 365 Reasons to Write e-book,
too. Can I have what they’re getting? So, I included that for them as well.
So they got that bonus as well.

And at the end of the Procrastination Domination Starter Kit webinar, I
give them a link to a survey, a little three-second, three-question survey
that says, “What three words would you use to describe this webinar? Are
you very satisfied, satisfied, not that satisfied, Sam I hate you?” and
anything else you want to say, just an open text thing in case they want to
say anything else. And that, but their prize for filling out, so it’s take
this three-second survey and get another webinar called “I love money and
money loves me” that’s about creatives and making money.

So that also had, had two important things. One, it gave me feedback and
testimonials right away on a brand-new product. So I can say here’s what
people are saying about the Procrastination Domination Starter Kit,
illuminating, inspiring, fun, helpful, warm, intriguing, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. It gave them a second thing, which I’m happy to do, and again,
it gives me some idea about the level of engagement, and that was really,
in some ways, everything about that referral program, the thing that meant
the most to me was that people would do it at all.

I sort of haven’t thought about it until all of a sudden, these referrals
started coming in. I thought, how lovely. How sweet of them. Take the time
out of their lives, we were just talking about how an e-mail can just eat
your life. To take the time to actually think of three friends who might
like it, and send this out. It was really moving to me.

Trent: How much revenue did you generate from the referees, the people that
were referred to you? There’s approximately 650 of those people.

Samantha: There was 600 people referred, and about 150 of them ended up
joining my list.

Trent: Okay.

Samantha: Permanently. The rest of them, I deleted because I don’t have
permission to e-mail them. I have no idea what that number is.

Trent: Really? I would have thought you would have known that. All right.
There’s some portion?

Samantha: I’m sure some of them have bought something at some point. Yes.

Trent: Okay.

Samantha: Or if they haven’t, they will.

Trent: Yes. Absolutely. The point is that those leads were very easy for
you to acquire. You now have them, and have a relationship, or building a

Samantha: Right. The statistic I hear is that a referred client is 70% more
likely to close and will spend about 70% more with you.

Trent: Absolutely.

Samantha: That’s what the numbers I’ve heard out in the universe. I don’t
know if that’s true of those 120 people or not.

Trent: In my old business, absolutely that was true. I had an offline
business. I always met with the people. I knew that data pretty accurately.
Our biggest customer ever, they were a referral from another customer. That
particular customer paid us more than two times per month of our previously
bigger customer. Without the referral, never would have gotten them. Not a

Samantha: Never would have had them. Again, it’s just like all
relationships. To make a new friend, to have a blind date, I’m so much more
interested if you say, ‘Oh my gosh. Wait until you meet my friend Trent.
You are going to love him. He’s so smart and funny and charming. You are
just going . . . ” Okay. Great. That sounds great.

Trent: Yeah.

Samantha: As opposed to somebody that comes cold. It takes time. This
organic search thing takes time. This building a dedicated list takes time.
I would rather have something that takes longer and goes deeper, than
something fast that burns out. That’s me.

Trent: Samantha, you have been an absolutely fascinating guest to have on
my show. I want to thank you so much for making the time and sharing all
this with us. I never want to put anyone on the spot while I’m recording
the interview, but I sure hope . . .

Samantha: I’ll do it. I’ll do it.

Trent: All right. Awesome. There you go. There is a master class soon to be
available. We will schedule that as soon as we hang up.

Thank you everyone for listening. It’s my privilege to have the opportunity
to interview so many really smart people like Samantha, and get a free
education myself. I hope that you find inspiration in these. If you do, and
you have feedback that you’d like to give, please do get in touch with me.
You can find me on Twitter or the comments under the forum. It’s not hard
at all to get a hold of me. Use the contact form on any of my sites.

We will see you again soon. I guess you will see me again soon, because I
can’t see you, here on Bright Ideas. We will have some more. I’ve got just
some amazing guests coming up, founders. I’ve got this one guy coming up.
He’s got this hot sauce company, does $7 million a year in sales. This is
like the world record hot sauce. I got another guy coming up who’s the
founder of V-worker. He’s doing $11 million a year with his show. Not his
show, his site. It’s just awesome. I love doing this stuff.

Thanks everyone for tuning in. I look forward to having you back soon. Take

If you want to get the show notes for today’s episode, just go to The other thing I want to tell you about is if you go to, you are going to get access to my massive
traffic tool kit. This tool kit is chalked full of the very best traffic
generation ideas that have been shared with me by previous guests on the
show. The great thing about all the ideas that have been shared in the tool
kit is that you don’t have to be some kind of SEO guru to be able to do
this stuff.

Go check it out. Just enter your e-mail on the page. It’s That’s it for this episode. I’m your host,
Trent Dyrsmid. Want to ask you a small favor, if I can. If you love this
episode, please head over to iTunes, and give it a 5 star rating. Also,
leave a little feedback comment. Every time you do that, the show gets a
little higher in the rankings on the iTunes store. More and more people
find the show. Therefore, we can spread all these great bright ideas with
even more and more entrepreneurs out there in the business community.

Thank you so much. Thanks for tuning in. We’ll see you in the next episode.

Here are some of the things you’ll discover in this episode:

How to Increase Web Traffic with Marketing and Sales Automation via Infusionsoft

Samantha Bennett, an artist by nature, has created an online business that has gained her recognition in the world of online marketing. She was a finalist for the Infusion Ultimate Marketer Award in 2010. Her unique referral strategy has allowed her to boost her business by more than 10% in just four days. This level of growth for any business is almost unheard of, until now that is.

Listen to this episode to learn just what Samantha did to grow her business phenomenally in four days.

365-blue-coverEmails are very much ingrained in the marketing strategies of any business. Your online business will either thrive or perish with how you manage to engage your customers through email. Samantha has developed her very own customer engagement strategy that has allowed her to achieve high levels of “open rates” on the emails that she sends.

Listen to the show to learn what Samantha wrote in her emails and just what she does to compel people to open them.

With the strategies that she has developed and employed herself, Samantha has managed to grow her earnings from $50,000 the previous year to well over 6 figures this year. She has even sent a single email that has generated $120,000 in revenue. These numbers are impressive. If you want to find out more about how Samantha increased her earnings, listen to the show and hear her explain her methods and her strategies.

Before her success as an online marketer and entrepreneur, she was predominantly an artist (writer, actress) with no real background on business and computers. Since she discovered that she had the knack for helping other artists out with their works, she has spent most of her time working on that aspect of her business. It is inspiring to hear what she has done to build her business with nothing but Infusionsoft and a strong desire to succeed.

Listen to the show to find out how Samantha started out with no savings and no training to create a thriving business one tiny step at a time.

Customer engagement and response is really crucial to the success and development of a brand or business. When you send out emails to your target customers, you want them to respond positively by having them click to your site or sales page, having them forward the email to their friends or even having them refer your site or offers to their friends. Listen to the show to find out how Samantha got an avalanche of response to her emails.

If you are running and marketing an online business, it goes without saying that you need to market to people who are interested or who will be interested in what you are offering. Samantha has successfully done this with the help of a customer database management system, in her case Infusionsoft. Listen to the show and learn just how she automated a system that kept her emails out of the trash bin allowing her to get a high open rate and response rate.

With all the distractions in today’s modern world, a typical person or potential customer will usually forget your business in 36 hours. Your goal as an entrepreneur then is to maintain your potential customers’ attention long enough to create a relationship.

Listen to this episode to learn what Samantha does in this crucial time period to create a lasting relationship with her potential customers.

It's all already been said. Just not by you.

It’s all already been said. Just not by you.

Many online entrepreneurs think that it is mainly a numbers game. They think that the size of the mailing list alone is enough to ensure success. Samantha knows through experience that this is not the case. She has found a way to gain more targeted potential customers and increase her conversion rate by over 100%.

Business is a relationship between the entrepreneur and the clientele. It is your responsibility as business owner to keep a relationship going with your clientele. Samantha shares her views on this relationship and her thoughts on just what it takes to be a successful marketer and communicator.

Samantha is a great communicator and artist. In the interview, she shares how she acquires leads easily and build lasting relationships in ways that encourage referrals. Listen to the show to learn more about her highly effective super referral strategy that allowed her to grow her business by 10% in 4 days.

As a bonus, Samantha also generously shares a piece of advice that has allowed her and many of her students to achieve jaw-dropping results with their art and other projects.

Listen to the episode to learn Samantha’s best secrets.

About Samantha Bennett

49kb-BennettOriginally from Chicago, Samantha Bennett is a writer, actor, teacher and creativity/productivity specialist who has counseled hundreds of artists on their way to success.

The author of the surprisingly popular book of poems, “By The Way, You Look Really Great Today,” Samantha is currently writing “The Organized Artist Book: A Success Book For Creative People Who Want To Be More Organized And Organized People Who’d Like To Be More Creative.”