Infusionsoft Tutorial: How to Automate Birthday Reminders

One of the many ways that you can build relationships with your customers and prospects is to send them an email or a card to extend them a birthday wish.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideThe challenge with this is that, as your list of customers and prospects increases in size, sending out birthday cards or emails can become a significant resource drain – unless you have a means of automating it.

There are plenty of ways to do this, of course. However, unless you like adding complexity to your business, the most effective ways will not require you to add yet another “system” for you or your staff to maintain.

Infusionsoft: A Much More Efficient Solution

If you are an Infusionsoft user, there is there is a much more effective way to achieve greater results with less effort (and frustration).

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done.

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How to Capture More Leads, Target Them More Effectively, and Sell More Products

Do you ever feel like there is just not enough time in the day to get everything done?

Do you feel like you have a crystal clear picture of exactly what success looks like for your business?

Would you like to hear from another small business owner who is successfully making the transition from owner/operator to just owner?

If you are looking for actionable tactics and strategies that you can use to spend more time working “on” your business, as opposed to “in” it, you are going to love listening in on the discussion that we have in this interview.

My guest on the show today is Brad Martineau, founder of Sixth Division – a leading source of coaching, training, and done for you services for Infusionsoft users.

When you listen to this interview, you are going to hear Brad and I talk about:

  • (9:35) Brad’s biggest challenge
  • (12:52) How to transition from Solopreneur to Entrepreneur
  • (18:05) The story of Pardot & what anyone building a business can learn from their strategies
  • (20:05) How to define what success means to you
  • (23:35) How plusthis helps capture more leads, target them more effectively, and sell more products
  • (27:15) How Iron Tribe (a past brightideas guest) uses plusthis with great success
  • (30:05) How to customize thank you pages
  • (30:10) How Laura Roeder (another past BrightIdeas guest) uses plusthis
  • (35:05) What transactional text messaging is and how you can use it to offer a speedy response to your customers
  • (40:05) How to use expiring promotions to offer time-limited discounts
  • (48:05) How to use a Cycler Tool to determine the order in which you deliver content
  • (55:00) Lightning Round

I learned a great deal in this interview, and strongly encourage that you go check it out now.

Links Mentioned

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:



Dyrsmid: Hey there, Bright Idea hunters. Welcome to the Bright Ideas

podcast. I’m your host, Trent Dyrsmid and this is the podcast for marketing

agencies and entrepreneurs who want to discover how to use content

marketing and marketing automation to massively boost their business. My

guest on the show today is Brad Martineau, founder of Sixth Division, a

leading source of coaching, training and done-for-you services for

Infusionsoft users. They’re also the founder of a company called PlusThis

which we’re going to talk about in some detail in the interview.I met Brad while attending Infusion Con 13 and I learned of his new

venture which I just mentioned, PlusThis. They were a battle of the apps

finalist. They do some really cool stuff that integrates with Infusionsoft

and that’s why I wanted to give Brad an opportunity and talk about it.Before we get to that we’re going to talk about my technology tool

tip of the week. That is something called ‘Buffer App’. I use Buffer App to

very easily schedule up a bunch of social sharing. whether I want to put it

on LinkedIn, Facebook or Twitter. When I’m reading my RSS feed each morning

and I see stuff that I want to share with my particular audience if you

just hit the tweet button it’s all going to go out automatically right away

and I don’t necessarily want stuff to go that quickly. I like to stagger it

out. Buffer App, which is a free tool to use, you can get it at is a super easy way to stagger your distribution and choose

which of your social networks you want to share that traffic on.Lastly I want to make mention of an upcoming webinar that I have.

It’s called the Seven Secrets of Success for Small Businesses. If you want

to attend that webinar you’re going to learn all about something called

‘life cycle marketing’ which is a seven step process that I absolutely

promise you will have a massive impact on your business once you understand

and then embrace these seven steps in the business. If you are not yet a

subscriber and you want to get notified of that webinar just go to

BrightIdeas dot C-O, enter your details and you’ll definitely get emails

from me making you aware of the next webinar date.With all of that said please join me in welcoming Brad to the show.Hey, Brad. Welcome to the show.Brad

Martineau: Thanks. Glad to be here.

Trent: You recently have come out with this new tool, I’ve just

started to use it really early on and that’s why I wanted to have you on

the episode to have you talk a little bit about the tool and how you’re

using it to build your business and how your clients are using it to build

their business. It’s called PlusThis, it was a battle of the apps finalist

at Infusion Con 2013. That’s how I learned about it and I want to talk

about that but before we dive into that for people who don’t know who Brad

Martineau is or what you’re doing maybe just take a quick moment and

introduce yourself.

Brad: Yeah sure. Obviously, my name is Brad Martineau. Funny how I feel

compelled to say that even though you’ve said that several times. But

that’s my name in case anyone missed it the first time around. I’m a co-

founder at Sixth Division which is a company that provides marketing

services and coaching primarily right now our target market is people who

use Infusionsoft but we see ourselves at some point expanding to work with

the small business population at large.

My background very quickly. I was the sixth employee at Infusionsoft.

I believe it was back in 2004 was when I started so I was the entire

support team and then we hired a support team and I moved into

implementation. I was specifically just helping people implement the

software and I ended up in product management which is a fancy way of

saying that for about five and a half to six years I got to work on the

front lines with customers to figure out how they were using Infusionsoft

and quite frankly other tools in their business to run their business,

being able to see what worked, what doesn’t work. My job was to work with

our developers and our executive team to create a product development

pipeline and build features that were powerful and also made sense to


I believe I had the best job that you can possibly have. Being able

to work with end users and customers and then being able to work hand in

hand with the developers. I had my fingerprints over pretty much every

feature that was developed the time that I was there. It was really fun to

see what technology could do and understand, at a level deeper than

probably any business owner ever cares to know and I don’t know that I

really care to still know that, but it was really good to get that deep

dive of, ‘This is what’s possible with technology,’ and have that blended

with, ‘Here’s what people are doing in the real world to build their


I did that for five and half to six years and I got to a point where

the stars aligned, planets aligned got to a point where it made sense for

me to branch off. I was going to solve all the problems in the world and

then reality hit, there was a learning curve like I think everybody goes

through of building and running and growing a business is a little bit

different in theory than it is in practice so there’s a little bit of a

learning curve but after a while I connected with Dave Lee who’s my

business partner. He also worked at Infusionsoft. We worked together for

about six years. He had subsequently left as well. We decided there’s a

need for a practical, down-to-earth yet elite team and service provider to

really help people grasp this concept of marketing automation and really,

as opposed to the tail wagging the dog, put the business owner and make

them be the dog that actually wags the tail. A lot of people get in and

jump on this train ride that is Infusionsoft and they’re holding on for

dear life. We want to put them back in control and really help them

leverage the power that Infusionsoft can bring their business.

That’s the short summary. I was at Infusionsoft and now we’ve got a

company over here where we help people unleash the full power of

Infusionsoft on their business. We’re having a blast, having a good time.

PlusThis was spun off…I don’t know if you follow 37 Signals but they

wrote a book early on and talked about by product and how some of their

products were created because it was just something they needed when they

were initially being a consulting company or building and designing

websites. PlusThis is the exact same thing. It was a, we were working with

clients… and maybe you’re going to ask where PlusThis came from so it’s

going to dovetail into that but we worked with a lot of clients and we

realised very, very quickly that there were almost zero implementations

that we could do, and do the way that we wanted to to really unlock

Infusionsoft without requiring a little bit of custom development. That’s

not to say you can’t make it work. It’s just to say that the way we wanted

to build it we needed some additional tools that weren’t available. We

started contracting a developer to build these little scripts that we

wrote, and we would install it on our customer’s web server and they could

do really cool things. We realized we were building the same things over

and over again.

I had had this idea when I left Infusionsoft to build a library of

scripts so we could put everything in one spot and once we realized we were

actually building the same scripts over and over again and the fact that

business owners don’t want to think about FTP or API or web servers or any

of that, most of them, so we wanted to build something so easy… we like

to joke around the office it had to be so easy that even Clate Mask could

use it, who’s the CEO of Infusionsoft. We set out to build this library of

features, that’s what PlusThis is and we ended up becoming a finalist in

Battle of the Apps. It’s debatable as to who should have won that contest

but we’ll let it go. That’s where we are now. We provide services and then

we have this software tool that we’re continuing to develop and add on to

and again, everything we focus on right now is helping the small business

get more out of Infusionsoft and really leverage the power that’s there

whether it be through services or through software.

Drysmid: For some of the folks who haven’t heard of Sixth Division where

are you located and how many people are coming to work there every day?

Brad: We’re in Chandler, Arizona so we’re ten minutes door to door from

Infusionsoft. Straight down the freeway from Infusionsoft. We have some

employees who are remote and who travel in to do services. We’ve got one in

Ohio, one in San Diego and then there are seven of us that work in the

office. So nine total plus a couple of contractors that do some pretty

regular work for us.

Drysmid: You’ve built a very nice small business. The reason I ask that

question is there are a lot of people listening to this who are a

solopreneur or maybe even a two person or a three person shop. I remember

when I was a solopreneur and I got to two and then I got to three. When I

was at three I was thinking, ‘Man, how do I get to six?’ When I was at six

I was thinking, ‘How do I get to ten? How do I get to twelve?’ I want to

make sure people understand that you’re a small business owner just like

they are and you have the same challenges in attracting new clients and

making sure profits arrive and systematizing and so forth to grow your

business just like they do.

Brad: Just one point on that. Our biggest challenge…and I don’t say

challenge like ‘we don’t know what to do’. It’s the next obstacle. But our

obstacle right now is creating systems and getting everything in place to

where my business partner and I can spend our time building the business

and not doing the work. There’s an interesting gap that you have to get

across, if you had asked me even nine months ago I don’t know that I would

have told you that within the next six to nine months that I would

literally be in a position where I would be building the business and not

doing the work. And quite frankly I don’t know that I would have told you

that I wanted to. I think that probably six months or so ago I wanted to

build a team because we needed more people to provide services but I was

excited about being involved in the work because it was my baby.

The thought process of how we go about doing what we do, a lot of

that was coming from me. My business partner’s more the marketing and the

sales side. The only reason I bring this up is because for the person who’s

sitting at three or even at six, depending on the type of business and

there’s variations, and all different types of business, but there’s a very

strong pull to want to hold tightly to the thing that you do, whether it be

providing a service or you’re building something. Whatever the case may be

there’s a very tight pull, almost magnetic, that you want to keep a grasp

on what it is that your company does. Really for the company to grow I’ve

had to come to realize and to learn that I have to get people that can do

that and empower them to do that because there is so much work that needs

to be done to establish a systematized business and then to create a

marketing plan to continue to bring in the leads. There’s a full time job,

if not multiple full time jobs, just to build a business and it’s what the

business owner should be doing. If there’s anybody listening that’s

struggling with that that’s something I definitely struggled with. There’s

definitely a mental shift that has to take place to go from ‘I’m going to

be doing this work, I’m going to be doing it,’ to get to the point where,

‘I could actually go hire people. If I could find the right people, I could

put the right people in place to be able to get myself to where I’m

building the business and not doing the work.’ But it takes a bit of a

shift of a mind set.

Drysmid: I’m glad you brought that up and I’m going to go down that

rabbit hole for a little bit before we shift and talk about PlusThis

because I think it’s a really importantly rabbit hole. The first thing is,

you talked about something and as you were saying I thought about this. You

can have growth or you can have control. I think that’s part of that big

mind shift. I’m interested in your opinion. Did you feel you had to give up

control to get to growth?

Brad: Absolutely. Infusionsoft offers this thing called ‘Elite Forum’. It’s

Clate and Scott teaching their methodology. Dave, my business partner, and

I were involved in that when we were at Infusionsoft. He made a really

interesting comment the last time I was there which was just a different

way – I’d never thought about it this way. He said, ‘Entrepreneurship is an

exercise in learning to let go.’ If that’s not the truest statement in the

world I’m not sure what is.

I believe 100% that in order for you to be able to grow, and not just

grow revenues, but to grow the business however it needs to grow you’ve got

to have the mentality of finding good people that you can empower to go do

the job. I’ll frame that and this is a critical point. You have to know

what you want out of your business first. There are a lot of people that

want a solopreneur shop and that’s what they want. They want the lifestyle,

they want to run everything and that’s great. What I would say is, know

what you want and then create a plan to get there. If you want the

solopreneur bit then don’t let other people convince you that you should be

hiring to grow. Because if you just want the solopreneur gig then make that

work and completely control your schedule.

What you do is, this is my formula. You start by saying, ‘What do I

want out of my business?’ Whether it’s solopreneur or build the business,

whatever it is create a plan that says, ‘This is what my life will look

like as a result of me building this business.’ For some people it’s going

to be solopreneur. For us, we know how big we want to get. We don’t want

100 coaches in our services business. That’s not what we’re trying to do.

That’s not what we want to build. Infusionsoft on the other hand, they want

the whole built-to-last approach.

I’m not going to sit here and even pretend to try and judge and say

which one is right because it depends on the business owner but the key is

to know what you’re trying to build and then once you know that, then the

next step is to create a business plan that allows you to get there. Once

you define your ideal lifestyle you should end up with a dollar amount and

‘This is what the profit needs to be so I can live this way and this is

what my schedule’s going to be.’ Once you have that defined now you can

create a business plan that says, ‘These are the products and or services

I’m going to offer and this is their price point and I need to be able to

sell X number of each one.’

I don’t want to take this too far down the rabbit hole but for anyone

that is chewing on that create-the-menu business plan I would read a book

by Michael Masterson called ‘Ready, Fire, Aim’ where he talks about your

first job is to sell your first product profitably. If you’re not at the

point where you’re into profitability and cranking with the product and

you’ve got five I’d cut four of them out and I’d focus on one. And I would

focus on your most expensive one because it gives you the most profit.

There’s a whole conversation there but first, identify your ideal lifestyle

and how many hours you want to be working and how much money do you want to

be making. Then you want to create a business plan. A business plan is

literally as simple as ‘These are my products and services. This is what I

charge for them. This is my margin. Here are my fixed expenses.’ You just

come up with an equation that will tell you exactly how many units you need

to sell. Once you decide on that you move to the next step which is go

create your marketing plan of how you’re going to get those clients.

I see a lot of people that every time they run into a roadblock they

go back and assume they have to change their business plan, their products,

their services or their pricing. I say, ‘No. Decide on that and move onto

your marketing and get better at marketing. Don’t blow up your business

every month because you don’t hit the numbers you want. Figure out how to

market the right product.’ That’s the formula that works for me. And that’s

what I’ve learned. Identify what you want your ideal lifestyle to look

like, come up with a business plan. What are you going to sell, how many

and at what price point and then go create a marketing plan to make that

happen. Then your energies and effort should be in the marketing plan and

making sure you’re driving that forward.

That forces you to have to let go of everything else because your job

is to then get those units to build the business to match whatever it is

you want your lifestyle to look like but you’ve got to let go of everything

else. You can’t be answering the phone when somebody calls in. You’re never

going to build the business to where you want it to be. Somebody else needs

to do that and you need to find someone you trust to do that. You may not

be able to take all the sales calls. I don’t do any sales calls and I

hardly do any implementation anymore on the services side and it’s a little

bit difficult for me at times. It’s hard to let go of that. But yes, I

agree 100% with your statement. we can either grow or I can have complete

control over everything. I’d rather grow and get to the point where we want

to build our business to because it makes everybody’s life better.

Drysmid: It does. Plus if you’re the solopreneur there’s never anything

that you can sell, you’re never building any equity. Nobody wants to buy a

business that is 100% dependent upon you. If you’re trying to build some

lasting value for yourself and your family and have the opportunity to

transition to retirement or real estate investments or whatever it is you

want to do when you don’t want to do this anymore you cannot be a

soloprenuer and make that happen.

Brad: Yeah, I’ll take thirty seconds. A really quick story to illustrate

that. I met a guy about six or seven years ago at a [inaudible 00:18:01]

Association conference named David Cummings. He’s the guy that founded

ParDot, the email marketing solution for bigger businesses. I don’t know

how many businesses he has but, very interesting, his model as the business

owner is he starts a business and the first thing he does is go out and

finds a president or a CEO to run the business. He builds everything around

systems so literally, he just sold ParDot to, I don’t remember who it was.

Exact Target or Vertical Response or somebody. He sold it. Because none of

the businesses depended on him…normally when you sell it’s going to be

cash less stock and then you’ve got to stay around for a year. He signed,

it was a 95% cash deal, he signed and and then he walked out, literally,

walked out the door the next day, in fact it was that day, and never went

back. Never had to do anything with it. There’s a lot of power and leverage

in having a business that can just run and crank and just go, all by itself

and you’re driving the business so that if somebody else wanted to buy it

they could just drive the business but the systems are already in place.

Trent: Just for my show notes, what was his name again?

Brad: David Cummings. For anyone who wants to follow he’s got an excellent

blog. He blogs everyday and it literally takes you two minutes to read it

and they’re amazing insights, short, bullet pointed stuff, but really,

really good insights. He’s a really good entrepreneur, great mind to


Trent: What’s his blog?

Brad: That’s a great question. I think it’s 10,000 Hours of

Entrepreneurship. If you just search for David Cummings it’ll come up.

Trent: I’ll make sure I include it the show notes. At the end of the

episode I’ll announce the link for how to get to show notes. Before we move

off this topic I wanted to offer up a book as well that I just finished

reading. In Canada there’s a company called 1-800-GOT-JUNK. They’re not in

Canada, they’re worldwide now. They’re one of the more phenomenal growth

stories of at least my hometown. Their COO for years, who has left them

now, I don’t remember his name, but his book is called Double Double.

Especially being a COO, he’s a real numbers guy and he talked a lot in

Double Double about pretty much, Brad, what you said.

Figure out what the outcome is that you want and then reverse engineer. His

name is Cameron Herold. Reverse everything you need to do to get there and

then figure out what your key performance indicators are and your job is to

watch those very closely on a weekly, daily, monthly basis to make sure

you’re hitting them. In his book he chapter by chapter breaks down how to

do all this. If it’s growth you want this is probably a book you’re going

to enjoy.

Brad: I don’t think it can be overstated, the importance of ‘decide what

you want and reverse engineer how to get there’. I think there are way too

many people who wake up every day and they go into an office and they feel

comfortable they spent eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve hours in an office

and they go home but they have absolutely zero bearing on whether or not

they are closer or further away from their goal. Usually I see the problem

is people haven’t started by defining what their goal is. They have no idea

what success looks like. And if I can throw out one last little bit on this

and then we can be done with it. It’s not easy to figure that out. I think

some people get into it and they try and write it down and they feel dumb

because they feel it should be easy to figure out. It’s not. It is a pain

in the freaking butt to figure out and really identify what you want.

It takes a lot of thought because you have to balance everything in

your life. If you’ve got kids you’ve got to balance out how it’s going to

work with your family, how much time do you want to spend versus how much

time do you want to spend in the business? I Ultimately it just comes down

to making a decision. It’s not easy. It’s a simple process but it does take

time and it is hard because you’ve got a lot of stuff to balance and

because you’ve never thought about it before.

If you’re an entrepreneur or a business owner and you don’t have a

clear number, meaning dollar amount/time amount, that you’re working

towards, then there’s a certain part of you that is just wasting time every

day when you wake up and go to work. You’ve got to know. If you’re trying

to lose weight it’s easy. You know exactly how much weight you’re trying to

lose and then you work towards that every single day. Same thing in

business. what are you trying to make happen in the business and what are

you working towards? You’ve got to decide that. It pains my soul every time

I talk to someone that doesn’t know. ‘What are you doing then? How do you

know if you’re being successful or not if you have no idea what your goal


Trent: It’s like going for a drive and not knowing where you

destination is. Or just driving around. At the beginning of Cameron’s book,

that’s what he devotes his first three chapters to. In fact, chapter one is

called Vision/Painted Picture and it’s preparing for fast growth. Very

good. I’m sure you would love it.

That was a cool rabbit hole, I’m glad we went down it and I’m quite

sure we served the audience by doing so.

Now I want to talk about PlusThis. Infusionsoft as you know and I

know and anyone who’s listening to this already knows is an amazingly

powerful tool so much so that people who don’t use it really don’t even

get. They don’t comprehend. I get emails from people every week saying,

‘Could you spend a little bit of time with me showing me why you’re so

excited about Infusionsoft?’ I do a little Skype and screen share and show

them how much of my stuff I’ve automated and usually their jaw is just

hanging open. ‘I had no idea. I thought it was an email program.’ Which

couldn’t be further from the truth.

You build this thing called ‘PlusThis’ which integrates very smoothly

with Infusionsoft because there are all these little problems that you want

to solve that are not necessarily super easy to solve with Infusionsoft.

We’re going to give some specific examples of that in about ten seconds and

how solutions to those problems can benefit the business. Let’s talk about

a couple of the features that you guys have developed early on in PlusThis.

Let’s start off with Stealth Video Tracking. What is it and why should

someone use it?

Brad: Perfect, let me just start. All of these we go through, our approach

to PlusThis. Let me just give the backdrop for that, all those will make

more sense. The end result of using Infusionsoft in our business is we want

to make more money. We can make more money by converting more people. We

can convert more people by getting the right message to the right person.

That requires us to know a couple of things. One, we need to know a heck of

a lot of information about the prospects and customers in our database so

we know if they’re the right person to send a particular message to.

We want to provide tools in PlusThis that allow us to capture and

store more information about our prospects and customers. What are they

doing, who are they? Then we want to build tools that allow us to send more

relevant and more targeted messaging that will lead to increased

conversion. The big picture backdrop is, capture more information so we

can be more targeting and convert more sales and make more money. That’s

the idea.

Stealth Video Tracking. The generic use of this is if you’re using

YouTube, Wistia is a video provider, or Vimeo, anyone of those three, we

can help you track how long people watch any of the videos you use in your

marketing. Probably the two most famous examples of this are Jermaine

Griggs. I’ve got a whole interview with him but but Jermaine Griggs. His

entire model is set up, he’s got four videos that he gives to his new leads

to start his opt in piece. And what he does is, he uses his videos to build

relationships with his customers. Also, on each video, next to each video

he’s got a little mini survey that allows him to capture additional

information. So what he does is, he sends people to go watch his videos. If

they don’t watch them I believe he sends them up to three or four

reminders to try and get them to go back and watch the video. If they watch

the video a couple of things happen. One, he knows they’re engaged in the

content so he knows they’re better likely to get an offer and actually buy

something. Two, he’s able to make jokes in his videos and start to build a

relationship with these people and three, he’s got a higher likelihood that

people will fill out the survey and give him even more information about

who they are and what they’re interested in.

So with the video tracking feature what you are able to do is track

of whether people have watched your videos or not and then you can adjust

your marketing based on that. So, for him, if somebody watches his first

video right away then the next video gets ‘unlocked’ the next day. If they

don’t watch it, then what happens is they get a reminder the next day to

watch video one and they’ll continue to get reminders up to three

reminders. At the end of three he’s like, ‘Fine, if you don’t watch video

one I’m going to try to get you to watch video two’. But because he knows

whether they’ve watched the video or not he’s able to then adjust his

marketing to make sure he’s preparing all his prospects the right way. On

the front end marketing side that’s one way you can use it. If he had a

sales team that was picking up the phone and calling, he doesn’t, but if he

did then they would be able to, when they opened up a contact record, would

be able to look at the contact record and as they’re talking to someone

they would know what that person has watched and what they haven’t watched.

Another example is Iron Track Fitness, they were the Ultimate

Marketer winners in 2012. Jermaine won in 2011. They’re selling franchises

now. They’re a gym out in Alabama but they’ve started franchising and

they’re at like 40 locations or something. Now what they do is, on the

franchise side of it, when they’re selling new franchises, they have their

entire education and basically franchise, onboarding process built into a

membership center and that’s all video based. They have a ton of training

that’s all video based and they take people through classes. What they do

is they use the video tracking feature to track whether or not somebody has

completed a course or not, whether they’re watching the videos. The people

that manage how their new franchisees are moving through the process can go

in and they have a simple little dashboard that tells them whether the

person is watching the videos or not. If they’re not they can pick up the

phone and be like, ‘Hey, look. You really need to watch this video because

it’s going to affect your franchise in this way, this way, and this way.’

It allows them to have better customer service for their franchises.

Whether it’s on the marketing side or whether you have an info

product and you want to be aware of whether people are watching or not. If

you’ve got an info product or a course and somebody’s not watching, that

person is going to be at risk to cancel or request a refund so it’ll let

you highlight who those people are. You can pick up the phone and call

them. On the flip side if it’s any of your marketing content, people that

are watching all your videos are at a higher likelihood that they are going

to be willing to buy. They are more interested. Those are the people you

want to call first or engage with first.

Again, it’s about giving you more information so you can either

change your conversation you’re having in person or automatically adjust

the conversation you’re having through emails or whatever other follow up

you’re doing.

Trent: For the folks who are maybe are not yet using Infusionsoft I

want to make sure there’s no details that are missed here. All of this

stuff happens on auto-pilot. When someone watches a video to a certain

point, which you define, you can then apply a tag within Infusionsoft and

when a tag gets applied you can trigger in the campaign builder all sorts

of actions whether they be phone calls or additional emails or what have

you. When Brad says ‘Germaine adjusts what he does’ it’s not as though he’s

sitting at his desk doing different stuff.

Brad: Quite the opposite actually. I think he literally works an hour a

week on that business that’s cranking out. Because he has it dialled in.

It’s totally 100% automated. All you do is build it once and then it runs

every time like clockwork.

Trent: If you’re interested in hearing more about Forrest Walden I did

interview him. You can get to that interview by going to BrightIdeas dot C-

O slash 3. It was a fascinating interview. Jermaine is actually going to be

on the show soon so if you want to catch that interview make sure you

become a subscriber and you’ll get a notification.

Let’s talk about customized thank-you pages. What’s the big deal

about those?

Brad: Stealth Video Tracking is more about capturing more data so that we

can start to tailor our message. customized thank-you Pages is a tool that

allows you to actually display customized messaging. When you get into

Infusionsoft it’s relatively easy, like you just described, to have

Infusionsoft automatically branch your messaging where if they watch the

video send them this series of emails and if they haven’t continue to send

them this series of emails. You can do all that inside Infusionsoft with

your emails or your voice broadcast or letters. You can have it branch in

terms of what you send out of Infusionsoft to your prospects or customers.

What Infusionsoft doesn’t have the capability to do is let you control the

message that you display immediately after somebody buys a product or fills

out a web form and opts into your website. Or fills out a survey that you

sent them if they opted in previously.

A really good example of this is: Laura Roder is a client of ours.

She teaches people about social media, she talks about Facebook and she

talks about Twitter and she talks about LinkedIn and Google Plus and

there’s a whole bunch of different social media tools. When somebody comes

to her website and they opt in, she’s going to want to ask them ‘What are

you most interested in?’ or ‘What are you having the most problems with?’

It only makes sense that if somebody checks off the box and says, ‘Hey,

Facebook is my biggest challenge right now,’ then it only makes sense that

the next page that shows up would be a page that talks about Facebook as

opposed to having one page. Imagine 100 people filling out this form and

let’s just say they were spread evenly across Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn

and Google Plus. You have two options. option number one is on the thank

you page you give a generic message that talks about all four of those. Or

you get tailored and based on their biggest problem you take Facebook

people to Facebook, you take Twitter people to Twitter, you take LinkedIn

people to LinkedIn and then you take Google Plus people to Google Plus. The

more you can keep your message 100% on target the higher your conversions

will be.

She’s excited because she’s able to use it increase her profit per

lead because as people are coming in, based on what she knows about them,

she’s able to deliver a very targeted thank you page after somebody fills

out the form. Now, the email messages will most definitely be targeted

because that’s handled inside Infusionsoft but the follow up marketing

starts on the thank you page of a web form. Most people don’t think of

that. I’ll see a lot of people that put up a web form to capture a lead and

all they’ll put on the thank you page is ‘thank you’. Really? They’re at

the peak of their interest. They’re most interested right when they opt in

or right when they fill out the form and the very first message they see is

the thank you page and a lot of people just throw up a generic ‘thank you’.

It’s like ‘No.’ That’s where you either continue to conversation or that’s

where you start selling something.

Another thing Laura will do and several of our other clients is let’s

just say somebody fills out a form to request a new report Seven, whatever.

Seven Secrets of whatever it is. On the thank you page they want to up sell

a particular product, say Product A. If somebody’s already bought Product A

you don’t want to offer them an up sell at a discounted price especially if

they bought at full price. customized thank-you pages also let you

comfortably and confidently put pages out there and allows you to take

anyone that’s already bought that particular product you basically branch

them to a page that is about something else. Maybe it’s an additional piece

of content or Product B. Try to sell them that product. So, customized

thank-you pages let you start creating a completely tailored message not in

your first email but actually on the thank you page when they’re looking

at it right there. You have 100% open rate on that page. Everybody sees it.

Trent: For anyone who would like to hear the interview with Laura

Roder I’ve done that, it’s at She has done a phenomenal

job of transitioning from what used to be just a web design, solopreneur

business, so this kind of dovetails into what Brad and I were talking about

earlier, into a team and a seven figure business with a very healthy profit

margin that she runs from her laptop on the road. Again,

if you’d like to hear more about Laura’s story.

Brad: So much so that when we worked with her, which was last year she was

about ten minutes late. She was like, ‘Sorry I’m late. On Monday we decided

to move.’ She was engaged and they are moving to London in the span of a

week and a half. This was inspiring to me that she had her business set up

this way. In the span of a week and a half she decided to move to London,

sold everything in her house, moved to London and it didn’t disrupt

anything in her business. It was really impressive. Anyway, really

interesting story.

Trent: That’s one of the reasons why so many of us are enamoured with

online businesses because it does give you that flexibility. Where are we

time wise? Okay, we’re still good.

Let’s talk about transactional text messaging. Again, what’s the big

deal? Why should I care about this stuff?

Brad: Text messaging. We have a ton of clients that use it for reminders

for webinars, to get people onto webinars. We have a lot of clients that

set up appointments. The way that they sell and the way that we sell set up

appointments to meet with someone and it’s a consultation and then we sell

out of the consultation.

We’ve got a guy, I forget where he is, anyway, Clint Barr. He runs a

fitness business and his whole model is people opt in for free information

and then he drives them to come into the office, sit down and have a

consultation. When you get into the gym world and into the MMA world and

all those they have insanely high close rates, 85% to 90% of the people who

get to an appointment will close. And it’s because, before you walk into a

gym you usually have a pretty good idea whether you’re going to buy or not

so their thing is getting people to come in for the appointments. We set up

a follow up sequence where we would do some email remainders and also a

text message reminder to get the person to come in because text message has

a much higher read rate than email. He was saying that before we

implemented that he would usually have six or seven no shows a month and he

got it down to one no show a month.

If you look at that and it’s like, ‘Well, those numbers aren’t

massive,’ but when you consider he’s setting maybe 20 to 25 appointments a

month. That’s 20% to 25% of the people that are coming in, that are

scheduling appointments don’t show up, and then he gets five more people

to show up, well five more people to show up at an 80% close rate means

he’s adding four new clients. You factor that over the life of the client

because they’re signing up for a three, six or twelve month contract then

all of a sudden it’s a little bit bigger deal. When you multiply those

numbers across any other business with larger margins or higher ticket

items it’s definitely worth it. Small hinges swing big doors. This is a

small hinge that could potentially swing a very large door.

The other potentially slightly different and, I think, maybe more

interesting use of text messaging that he has just recently implemented, in

his business, and I think this is true in a lot of businesses, he’s found

that speed of response is huge. When somebody opts in or somebody requests

an appointment the amount of time that passes between the time they’ve

filled out a form and he gets them on the phone to have a conversation has

a lot to do with whether or not that person’s going to convert. What he did

was he set up his system to where the transactional text message, he gets

one sent to him every time somebody opts in or requests an appointment.

There are some points where the clock starts ticking and whenever that

happens he has a text message go to him. I think he actually has changed it

to go to the assistant that actually makes the calls so the text message

comes in, ‘Heads up. Brad Martineau just filled out the form requesting an

appointment. Here’s the phone number.’ He clicks on the phone number and

can call it right then and literally be connected to the person within a

minute if they pick up. It allows him to cut down on his time of response.

Another interesting idea or use case for text messaging is not to

send it to prospects or customers but to send it to myself as the business

owner or a key employee or potentially even partners. There are a lot of

different ways you can use that once you start to realize, ‘Wait a minute.

I don’t have to send this to the prospect. I can send it to anybody I want

if I have their information.’

Trent: Excuse me, I have a frog in my throat today. I actually built

that feature into my…I have a plug in that generates leads for marketing

consultants and marketing agencies. If you want to check it out go to Mobi,

M-O-B-I, LeadMagnet dot com. I have that feature that built into the plug

in where when someone fills out the form on the landing page if I’m the

vendor, the guy who wants to get the customer, it lights up my phone and

says, ‘Bob just filled out the form two seconds ago.’ On my Smartphone I

just tap the phone number that came in and you can instantly be on the

phone with Bob and say, ‘Bob, I notice you just filled out my form.’ That’s

the moment you want to talk to somebody because they emotionally have made

a purchase decision and you don’t want to lose out on that opportunity.

Brad: Exactly, exactly.

Trent: All right. I’ll try my best to keep the frog out of my throat.

I guess I talked too much over the Memorial Day weekend so apologies to

everybody for me coughing. In Robert Cialdini’s book, I think I pronounced

that properly, on… gosh now I’ve forgotten the title. But it was,

scarcely, where I’m going with this, feebly I might add…

Brad: ‘Influence’ right?

Trent: Yes, ‘Influence’ is the importance of scarcity in marketing.

It’s hardwired into us to be more inclined to act when there’s the

possibility of losing out on something. That transitions us into this thing

called ‘expiring promotions’. What are they, why should I care about them

and how does PlusThis help me make them go?

Brad: Yeah, absolutely. Anytime you’re creating an offer of any kind, one,

your offer needs to be irresistible and amazing in and of itself. In

addition to that, any time I’m creating an offer, and this is whether it’s

an offer on a landing page, an offer for somebody to buy something or

whether I’m presenting something from stage, it doesn’t even matter in

which medium I’m delivering the offer, I’m always considering how do I…

the way s that I make the offer really great are, one, you’ve got to have a

good offer to start. Two, some type of a discount that’s available for a

limited amount of time. I’ll usually throw in bonuses for the first certain

number of people, because the idea of scarcity is so real you’ve got to

make sure you include some element of ‘I need to act now so I can get

this, this, this and this.’ The idea of creating an environment where when

somebody comes into buy…when I was at Infusionsoft the VP of Sales used a

term I’d never heard before and I really liked it. He called it a ‘forcing

function’. He said, ‘You’ve got to have a forcing function. You have to

have something that pushes the person to buy. They can’t just sit around

and say ‘Oh, that’s a cool offer but I know it’ll be there forever. I’ll

buy later.’ It needs to be something that causes the person to sit up in

their chair and say, ‘Wait a minute. I need to consider this right now

because if I don’t right now I’m going to miss out on something.’ That’s

the idea behind expiring promotions. With PlusThis it’s not a single

feature, you use a couple of features together to pull off expiring

promotions but the idea is that when somebody comes and they opt in, they

get you some free piece of information and at some point in the cycle

what’s going to happen is, you need to say, ‘By the way, I have this

product you can buy, product A and I’m going to give you a discount if you

buy it within the next seven days or within the next fourteen days.’ You

get to choose what your cycle is.

One of our clients, Sean Greely runs Net Profit Explosion, he helps

fitness businesses build their businesses up. He uses this concept where

when people opt in he’s trying to get them onto a consultation. Normally

they charge for their consultations. So his offer is that within the first

30 days you can get a free consultation instead of having to pay for it if

you jump. The key elements of creating an expiring promotion are you have

to know when the promotion ends and with it expiring you want it to be

evergreen which means it can work for anybody. We’ll take Sean’s example.

You’re doing a 30 day promotional window. If Jim comes and opts in today

then in 30 days from now his offer needs to expire and I need to be able to

talk to him about his offer expiring in 30 days from today. What’s today?

May, whatever. Anyway, today.

If John comes and opts in next week I need his promotion to expire in

a week and 30 days. It’s got to be built where no matter when somebody

comes into my system I can create this promotion that expires based on when

they’re coming in and on their timetable. What you do is, we have a feature

that allows you to calculate a date, it’s called What’s the Date, but

calculate a date in the future.

So what you would do is you would say, ‘The first thing I want to do

when somebody comes into my system is I need to calculate when does their

promotion expire.’ If it’s a 30 days window we have a feature where you

say, take today’s date, add 30 days and it will create that date and store

it for you inside Infusionsoft. Then we use another feature that’s called

Humanize the Dates, because they’re storing it as a funky computer date. We

want to convert it so it’s readable like a human would read it so that we

can merge it into emails. As soon as somebody opts in PlusThis says, ‘I

know today is May 1 and this guy’s offer needs to expire on June 1.’ So

what it will do is, it will calculate June 1 and then convert it into a

human date so I can put it in an email and say, ‘Thanks for coming and

opting in. I’ve got an offer for you. You can buy this product at half off

plus I’ll throw in this bonus, this bonus and this bonus and you’ve got to

buy before June 1.’

Then I can schedule all of my follow up emails leading up to that

expiration date but it’s specific to each contact so, again, if somebody

comes in on May 1 their expiration date is June 1. If somebody comes in on

May 15 their expiration date is June 15. For every single person that comes

in there is an automatic built in sense of urgency and scarcity because

they’ve only got a certain amount of time to take advantage of that

particular offer. So what it does is, it allows you to create that scarcity

and increase sales and you don’t have to do anything with it. Just like we

talked about with Jermaine’s system before, it’s autopilot. The thing just

runs. Every time they come in you’re cranking out your expiring promotion.

That’s the idea. We have a lot of clients that have used that all over the

board with a lot of great success.

Trent: I want to jump into that one a little deeper because I’m

thinking how I could implement that with my own. I have my info products

which are products within Infusionsoft and then I use an order form. I’m

very familiar with promotional codes and so forth that you could give a

discount. How does your expiring promotions tie into that? How does it

actually work? Would I have to create more than one order form? Do I have

more than one promotional code? Within that 30 day window let’s say, I

wanted, just hypothetically speaking, If you buy in the first week I’m

going to give you 50% off, if you buy before week two the discount goes

down to 25% off and if you wait till the very end it’s only 10% off.

Brad: The most sure-fire way to do this is with either the new order form

or the shopping cart where you can pass promo codes through the link into

the order form or into the shopping cart. And then what you do, here’s the

deal. This is where it gets tricky, right? You’re going to send an email

in week one that says, ‘If you buy within the first week you’re going to

get 50% off,’ they still have that email even when they get into week two.

They can click on the link from that email so it can’t be embedded in that

link that they get a 50% discount because they can go back to it and click

later. The third feature that you use is actually the customized thank-you

page feature. So what you do is you go in and you create a customized thank-

you page that will route to, let’s say you have three different offers.

50%, 25% and full price. You’ll create a customized thank-you page that

says if they have a tag that says I should give them 50% off I’m going to

send them to the 50% off link which adds the same product into the cart but

it includes a 50% off promo code.

If they have a tag that says they should get 25% off we’ll forward

them on to a link that says add the same product but give them a 25% off.

If they have a tag that says no discount then just add to product to the

cart like normal. And then what happens out of PlusThis, is PlusThis gives

you a URL and you plug that into all of your links across any one of the

emails. It doesn’t matter which email it goes in and then throughout your

sequence you’re going to apply and remove tags that control which promotion

they get.

As soon as they opt in this person gets a 50% off promo. That runs

for a week and at the end of that week we take that tag off and we put on

the ‘this person gets a 25% promo’. End of the next week we take off 25%

and put they don’t get any discount. What happens is no matter what email

they get throughout that calendar time frame, those emails will all point

to the PlusThis customized thank-you page URL so when they click on it,

whether they click on it during the first, second or third week, they’ll go

to PlusThis. PlusThis is going to check which promotion or discount they

should get and it will then pass them along to the appropriate URL and

because you’re passing the promo code through the URL when they get to the

shopping cart all they’ll see is your generic shopping cart URL at the top

and they’ll have no idea that a promo code was entered so they have no way

to spoof it unless somehow they figure out what that promo code is.

Trent: Slick. Excuse me, the frogs are back. That is a fantastic tool.

The last one is the ‘Cycler Tool’. I don’t even know what that is

because I haven’t used it yet. Why do I care about that?

Brad: You can do this without PlusThis if you’re really bored and like to

build a bunch of stuff out of Infusionsoft, which I’ve found most people

would rather make money. I think the first time I built this was for Laura

Roder, again she talks about social media concepts. When I opt in I might

say, ‘Facebook is my biggest problem but I’m also interested in learning

about Twitter and LinkedIn. I don’t care about Google Plus.’ Any time you

are marketing to prospects that have a wide variety of interests across

different topics you immediately come across this dilemma of ‘Okay, how am

I going to keep track of what people want and then how am I going to choose

what to send them and in what order?’ So you can get into Infusionsoft.

With her we built something called a ‘Cycler’. Think of it as a wheel

basically. When somebody opts in the first thing we want to try and pitch

them on is Facebook. If I know they’re interested in Facebook and Twitter I

want to try to pitch them on Facebook first.

If I know they’re interested in Twitter and LinkedIn I’m going to try

Twitter first. She’s got four kinds of messages in her library of content.

Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and Google Plus. When she goes to decide what

she needs to send to somebody first she needs to know what the person is

interested and then second, know if she’s already sent something. Once she

knows those two things, then she needs to have a priority of how she would

normally send things, if somebody was interested in everything what order

would she send all of her content in. So what this tool does, is it allows

you to go into PlusThis and say, ‘My library of content is broken up across

these four topics.’ And I’ll stick with Laura as a specific example.

Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and Google Plus. ‘If somebody’s interested in

all four I want to market to them, first I want to talk to them about

Facebook. If that doesn’t work I’ll talk about Twitter, if that doesn’t

work or even if it does, then I’ll talk about LinkedIn and then I’ll talk

about Google Plus.’ You go into PlusThis and you set those four up as

pieces of content that you have that you want to send out. You create a tag

for whether the person is interested in each one of those and then you have

a tag that says ‘start this content’, meaning either send this email or

start this entire sequence.

We also set this up for Casey Graham and the Rocket Company. They

were the 2013 Ultimate Marketers. They just came out and we built a similar

thing for them. Where, when somebody opts in, lets say somebody comes in

and says, ‘I’m interested in Facebook and I’m interested in LinkedIn,’

instead of choosing a sequence to start we just run an ACTP post to

PlusThis. PlusThis, say Okay, let me go check and see what this person,

it’ll basically say ‘Number one is Facebook. Let me go see if this person

has a Facebook tag that says they’re interested. If they do then I’m going

to go check and see if I’ve already sent them the Facebook content. If I

haven’t I’m going to start the Facebook content and I’m going to stop.

PlusThis doesn’t do anything else, it starts the Facebook sequence. Once

the Facebook sequence is done, then what I can do is I can run that same

ACTP post again and it will come back to PlusThis. Are they interested in

Facebook? Yes. Have I already sent the content to them? Yes. Okay, let me

move to the next one. Are they interested in Twitter? No, I don’t have a

tag for that. Okay I’m going to move to the next one. Are they interested

in LinkedIn? Yes. Have I sent it before? No. Okay, let me send the LinkedIn

content. It allows you to take this library of content and it allows you to

organize it any way that you want and you plug it into PlusThis and you can


For example, this may be a more specific example. you have a whole

bunch of interviews to talk about whole bunch of different stuff. Let’s say

you went through all your interviews, you’ve got at least 44. Because I’m

counting your numbers as you go up. As you look at all the interviews you

could categorize them and say, ‘This is a marketing interview. This is a

business building interview. This is a leadership interview. This is a

technology interview.’ You could label them all that way. Then what you do

is you say, I’m going to have people opt in and I want to know what they’re

interested in. I’m going to give them options. ‘I’m interested in marketing

and I’m interested in technology. I don’t really care about leadership and

business building.’

Instead of you building out this really intricate fancy campaign

inside Infusionsoft you go into PlusThis and you say, ‘Hey look. I’ve got

interviews for every interview you create a new entry in this cycler tool.

For all the interviews that are marked ‘marketing’ you’ll set it and say,

‘Hey if they’ve got the marketing tag I want to send this interview. Then

you have a tag that will kick off that interview and actually send it. Then

when you’re building out your ongoing [inaudible 00:52:44] you’re deciding

what email or what interview you want to release this week, instead of

putting an email in you put in an ACTP post that goes to PlusThis and says,

‘Hey, go grab the next interview that this person’s interested in that I

haven’t yet sent.’ It will automatically kick if off. It allows you to, you

basically put this library of content up and let PlusThis decide, based on

how you build it, PlusThis decides what to send and who it should be sent

to based on what they’e told you they’re interested in.

So as you add new interviews you might have a really hot interview on

marketing and you want to be sure that’s the next interview anybody gets

who’s interested in marketing. You go into PlusThis and add it to the top

of the Cycler and next time that ACTP post runs to PlusThis, no matter how

far down the list of interviews somebody is the next time it comes back

it’ll take that one first and say ‘Hey, are they interested? Yes, because

they said they were interested in marketing’. Second, ‘have I sent it? No.

It’s a brand new interview.’ And that will go out next to everybody who’s

interested in marketing.

Trent: That is very cool.

Brad: So anyway, what you get to do is, you build the logic of what kind of

content you’re going to produce and then all you have to do is just fill

the library. PlusThis will keep track of who should get what based on what

they’re already received and based on what they’re interested in. It

greatly reduces the complexity of, have I already sent this to somebody? It

allows you to leverage your content better too because you can just create

a library and you don’t have to think through who I should send what to.

PlusThis does it automatically.

Trent: Yeah that’s very cool.

Brad: That one’s a little harder to visualize so I apologize to everybody

on the call, once you see it it’s a little bit easier. It’s extremely

powerful in being able to cycle through different offers and promotions and

stuff like that.

Trent: Okay. Regarding the number of interviews it’s actually much

more than 44. If you want to listen to Casey Graham you can go to I think we’re up around 70 or so, they’re not all up.

Two a week. I’m cranking them out. All right, so that pretty much sums up

all I wanted to cover.

We just dumped a ton of marketing automation madness on the audience

and I took feverish notes and I will mention like I say at the very end of

this episode what the URL will be to get to these show notes. Actually I

can tell you now. It’s going to be So there you go Brad

you’re number 65.

Brad: Sweet.

Trent: We’ll wrap up with the lightning round. Brad, what are you most

excited about for 2013.

Brad: I am most excited because 2013 is the year I’m going to go from being

an owner-operator to an owner and it will be two businesses. We’re starting

to treat PlusThis as a totally separate business from our services. We’ve

got some other software ideas that are bubbling but I’m excited because

this will be the year where we get our systems in place, we’ve got a killer

team in place that’s cranking and it will allow me to leverage my strengths

in way better ways than I ever could realize before. I’m stoked because I’m

starting to feel the freedom. It’s not the I went through the ‘Oh I’m

excited because I’ve freedom I can go do whatever I want. And then I

realized you know what, it’s not like-, I’m 33, I’m not at the point where

I’m trying to not work for a year. What I want to do is I want to have is a

manageable schedule and make cool stuff happen and starting to get to the

point of tasting the way that we’re going to be able to make really cool

stuff happen is by me not being involved in delivering all of the work, but

actually having the freedom to be able to apply a strategic vision to our

business. And we’ve got two really good product offerings that I think

we’re just scratching the surface of what we can do on both sides. I’m

excited because I’m right at that threshold of being able to get over the

humps, so to speak. And I feel like over the next couple of years we’re

going to be able to explode both PlusThis and the services side and I’ve

got a couple of other software things that that will hopefully be coming

out relatively soon.

Trent: Very cool. Make sure you let me know and if they fit with the

audience that I’ve got, which I’m sure they will, I’ll be happy to have you


Brad: Perfect.

Trent: What is your favorite business book?

Brad: That is a tough question. I saw this when you sent the question over

before when you at least you were nice enough to warn me that you were

going to ask that. It depends, is my answer. It depends on what area of

business, like, business is not like simple things. So there’s a bunch of

different aspects to it.

Trent: Absolutely.

Brad: So I’ll just rattle off a couple that I really, really, really like.

One of them is ‘Ready, Fire Aim’ by Michael Masterson. I jokingly refer to

that as one of my bibles for building my business. It is such a practical

down to earth and logical approach to growing a business and so, there’s a

quick summary and he gives four phases that every business goes through. I

have read the overview of all four and I actually have only read the first

section and a half because that’s all that applies to my business and I had

enough stuff to go run and work with. So, love that one.

I love Verne Harnish, ‘Mastering The Rockefeller Habits’ it’s a great

read. Pretty simple read too but a great read to start to wrap your brain

around metrics and how to track them. The only caution that I would throw

out is depending on where your business is that book may… read it as a

student, not as a follower. Meaning read it to take ideas and then realize

that all the stuff he talks about may not be critical depending on where

your business is, but it’s a great frame of reference. Like, ‘Yes, I need

to be doing metrics. I need to be having reporting in place.’ So that’s a

great book.

Let me think what other like.

Trent: Well lets stop with two.

Brad: Okay, we’ll stop with two.

Trent: Two is good.

Brad: Oh, I got one more. Sorry, one more. This one I think is

awesome. For pricing and sales. It’s ‘No BS Pricing Strategy’ by Dan

Kennedy. Amazing, amazing book to help you understand how to price and how

to sell. Great book. So those three, money.

Trent: Okay. And for people that want to get hold of you, what is the

one easiest way for them to do that?

Brad: Go to We do a similar interview approach. We’ve

done a bunch of video interviews with marketers, Jermaine Griggs is one of

them. You can go there, and opt in for the interviews and get access to a

bunch of content there and then.

If you are an Infusionsoft user and are interested in anything else

we have to offer you’ll be prompted to schedule a consultation but as you

go through that process… so on the services side,

that’s the best place to find out anything about what we’re doing and then on the software side. But that’s pretty much where we are.

That’s where all of our stuff is at.

Trent: All right my friend. Thank you so much for making some time to

come on the show. I really enjoyed this interview and I’m sure the audience

did as well.

Brad: Thanks for having me.

Trent: You’re welcome to come back any time you like.

Brad: All right. Awesome.

Trent: All right. To get to the show notes from today’s episode go to When you’re there you’ll see all the links that we’ve

talked about today plus some other valuable information you can use to

ignite more growth in your business.

If you’re listening to this on you mobile phone while you’re driving

or doing whatever, just send a text – rather, just text TRENT to 585858 and

I’m going to give you access to the massive traffic toolbox, which is a

compilation of all the very best traffic generation strategies that have

been shared with me by my many proven experts that have been guests here on

the show.

As well, you’ll also be able to get a list of all my favorite

episodes that I’ve published thus far on the blog.

And finally, if you really enjoyed this episode, please head over to where you’ll be able to give or rather find the link to

leave us a rating in the iTunes store and I would really appreciate it if

you would take a moment to do that, because it helps the show to build its

audience and the more audience members we have, of course the more people

we can help to massively boost their business.

So that’s it for this episode. I’m your host, Trent Dyrsmid and I

look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Take care and have a wonderful day.

Recording: Thanks very much for listening to the Bright Ideas podcast.

Check us out on the web at

About Brad Martineau

bradmug2-copyBrad Martineau, Co-Founder of Sixth Division, serves the small business community as the leading provider of coaching and software tools that help entrepreneurs tap into the power of marketing automation.  He’s consulted thousands of successful entrepreneurs, business owners, and top marketers around the world.  He loves teaching and helping people understand difficult concepts.  Nothing drives him nuts more than seeing someone NOT do something because they don’t know how.

Back in the day, he was the sixth employee at Infusionsoft, and spent over six years leading the product development efforts as a key member of the Infusionsoft leadership team.  He had a blast and learned a ton doing this, all while getting to rub shoulders with many very highly successful entrepreneurs.

Brad is married with five kids, loves playing basketball, is addicted to fitted hats, and is pretty into the whole entrepreneur thing.

Digital Marketing Strategy: How Casey Graham Reached 5,000 customers and $2 Million in Sales in Just 3 Years

3 years ago, Casey Graham was at rock bottom. He was $80,000 in debt, he’d just missed out on a major family event (because he was on the road making sales calls), and things at home weren’t exactly firing on all cylinders.

For many early-stage entrepreneurs, this is an all too familiar story.

Fast forward 3 years, and Casey’s company has become extremely successful, all thanks to a major realization he made on a trip home from overseas (when we was missing out on that important family event).

While on the plane, Casey realize that the way he was delivering his product was wrong, he sales strategy was wrong, and if he was going to ever realize his dreams of owning a successful business, he was doing to need to do a number of things differently.

In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast, I’m joined by Casey Graham, founder of The Rocket Company, and also the winner of Infusionsoft’s 2013 Ultimate Marketer award. Having made some pretty big changes to his business 3 years ago, Casey now generates over $2 million a year (with very high profit margins), is completely debt free, and is having more fun than ever!

When you listen to this interview, here are some of the things that you are going to hear Casey and I talk about:

  • How entering his company in the Infusionsoft Ultimate Marketing Finals really helped his team to get ultra focused
  • (10:52) The story of how Casey fired himself from his last job to start his own business (and how awful it turned out)
  • (19:12) How his very first email broadcast from Infusionsoft earned him a few thousand dollars (something that he’d NEVER done before)
  • (20:12) Casey’s traffic generation strategy, and specifically, how Twitter played a pivotal role in growing his list from 832 to over 47,000 in just 3 years
  • (25:12) How Casey sets up automated nurturing campaigns in Infusionsoft
  • (28:16) How Casey warms up his new leads in a very special warm up sequence, which is then followed by a webinar sequence that results in the vast majority of their product sales
  • (32:42) How webinars play a crucial role in Casey’s sales funnel and how he structures them to produce maximum conversions
  • (34:00) How he presents an offer in his webinar so that more sales result
  • (37:30) How Casey generates substantial additional revenue via up-sells and cross-sells
  • (38:30) The 3 types of up-sells that Casey uses and how to replicate what he’s doing in your own business
  • (47:12) How Casey is building “relationship capital” with his customers with specific examples
  • (52:00) How the success of all of this has massively changed Casey’s life
  • (55:10) What he is most excited about for 2013, his favorite business book, and how to reach him
..And so much more!


More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:


Trent: Hey there bright idea hunters. Welcome to the Bright Ideas

Podcast. I’m your host, Trent Dyrsmid and this is the podcast

for marketing agencies and entrepreneurs who want to discover

how to use content marketing and marketing automation to

massively boost their business.On the show today is Casey Graham, founder of The Rocket Company. I

first learned of Casey when I was at Infusionsoft’s annual

conference. His company one the annual 2013 Infusionsoft

Ultimate Marketer of the Year award. To do that, he had to beat

out some pretty impressive competition. You’re in for a real

treat with this interview.In the interview, we’re going to talk about how Casey, a couple years

ago, was essentially broke, driving around in a little red

pickup truck, and really trying to make his business a success.

Fast forward three years later – He’s got a mailing list of

47,000 people, he’s doing over $2 million a year, he and his

family are completely debt free, he’s got a wonderful team of

people helping the company continue to grow. He’s actually now

removing himself from all operational roles so he can focus more

on strategy. Like I said, this is going to be a very fantastic

interview.Before we get to that, a couple of special announcements – My tool

tip of the week is a brand new tool called PlusThis. You can

get there, if you’d like to use our affiliate link, by going to PlusThis is essentially a library of

add on tools for Infusionsoft users. One of the tools there,

for example, is the integration with GoToMeeting. One of the

things, if you’re doing webinars with GoToMeeting, wouldn’t it

be valuable for you to know who attended and who didn’t attend?

You can get that information from GoToMeeting, but you have to

manually export it from GoToMeeting and then import it to

Infusionsoft, and that creates duplicates, labor, and

inefficiencies. That is one of the many things PlusThis can

help you automate.The other announcement I wanted to make is that our next webinar on

life cycle marketing – If you haven’t yet seen one of these

webinars, they’re a huge hit because it really goes into detail.

I show what I do, and what guests on my show have done to

increase the pace at which they are attracting new customers,

which obviously makes our companies more profitable, which

allows us to invest in further growth. If you want to get

registered for one of those, just go to, join up

on the mailing list, and you’ll receive a notification of the

next time I’ve got that webinar running.Please join me in welcoming Casey to the show.Hey Casey, welcome to the show.Casey: Thanks for having me on, I appreciate it.Trent: No problem at all. First off, congratulations on your

recognition as one of the Ultimate Marketer finalists this year

for Infusionsoft, that’s quite an accomplishment to say the

least.Casey: Thank you. I’d never heard about it until a year ago, and then

we went to InfusionCon a year ago, and we saw them on stage and

decided to apply for it this year. Somehow we were able to make

it through the rigorous interview process and the cuts and all

that and be a part of all that. It was awesome. We learned a

bunch from the other guys that were finalists as well, and are

actually continuing to learn from them. I would highly

recommend being a part of the Infusionsoft Ultimate Marketer

process, just from the relationships that you build.Trent: Yeah, no kidding. Both Dustin and Andy have been on the show

as well.Casey: That’s awesome, you’re getting it done.Trent: I try to make it my effort to get all of the Ultimate Marketers

on the show now. I think you’re being a little too humble here,

you didn’t just make the grade, if I remember correctly, you

won.Casey: Our team won. Me and Michael, and The Rocket Company won the

award. It was awesome to win, and to be a part of that. I

don’t know we won, the other guys were so awesome. Dustin and

the other guys, BlueChip, they were doing so much. It was cool.

Like I said, the process – I don’t know if everybody who

listens to this in an Infusionsoft user or not, but people that

Infusionsoft should be a part of the Ultimate Marketer process,

because it helps you think through your processes, since you

have to present them to people. What it did internally for us

was great. The award was awesome, but what it did internally

was solidify a lot things that needed solidifying. I really

appreciate you giving us a shout out for that.Trent: For the folks who don’t know who you are, and I normally start

my interviews with this, but I kind of skipped it, a little bit

on purpose because I wanted to send you that congratulations.

People don’t necessarily know who you are or what The Rocket

Company is. I want you to introduce yourself in just a moment.

For the folks that are listening, the big why on why you want to

listen to interview, and I think Casey is probably going to get

into it, is he was driving around in his little red truck trying

to find customers, and was not having a real good time at it,

and I’m going to let him tell that story, and then here he is,

some amount of time later, I don’t remember if it’s a year or

two later, he’s the Infusionsoft Ultimate Marketer of the Year,

and his business has absolutely blown up, in a good way, as a

result of that. We want to get all of those things out in this

interview, and I think we’re going to do a real good job with


With that said, Casey, thanks for being on the show. Please take a

moment and tell us just a little bit about what your company is

and does, and who you are.

Casey: The Rocket Company is an online learning for pastors and church

leaders. Church leaders get caught a bunch of things in college

or seminary – It’s kind of like us, even as entrepreneurs, you

can go to business school, but then there’s all of this stuff.

People that are actually listening to podcasts now, they’re

going, “That’s great, I learned that in business school, but

what is it really?”

That’s what The Rocket Company for churches, go, “That’s great, you

learned all that stuff, and you learned some theology, you

learned something in school. There is real stuff you have to do

as a pastor, like preach better sermons, and raise money, and

deal with volunteers. The Rocket Company provides online

training, learning and coaching for pastors in that way. It’s a

totally online model, except for some live events that we do.

It’s all digital, it’s all online, and it reaches all across the

world now. We have about 5,000 customers that are connected to

The Rocket Company, and that’s the niche which Rocket Company


Very simply, why we do it is that we believe in the church and we are

trying to help the church be successful. We’re tired of pastors

preaching boring sermons, we’re tired of cheesy TV pastors

trying to raise money on TV and doing it the wrong way and

turning people off, and we’re tired of volunteers burning out in

churches because there aren’t enough. We’re creating solutions

and coaching in those areas, that’s what we currently do.

Trent: If I was to really shorten that into a super simple

explanation, you help churches become more effective at the

business side of being a church.

Casey: Yes, and no. Yes, I think that’s right in a lot of ways, but

there’s a heavy relational slant on it. It’s not just business

as usual, we help them develop the interpersonal skills to be

able to pull off raising money, volunteering, preaching, and all

that stuff. Yes, you’re right. It’s where the rubber meets the

road. Simply, when people ask us what we do – We help the

church succeed. That’s what we do, and we feel like these are

the areas that make the most impact right now.

Trent: The reason I said that is that I think that probably few, if

any of the listeners right now, are involved in the church

business. I don’t want them to click the stop button, thinking,

“Oh, this is for churches, it wouldn’t be for me,” because that

couldn’t be further from the truth as they’ll learn, as they

keep on listening to this.

Casey: Well, we’re a business that serves churches, so you should

listen because we’re [inaudible 08:55]. 86% of churches are

broke or behind budget this year. The clientele we’re serving

do not have a lot of money, and the other reason, the clientele

we’re serving don’t get a financial benefit from using our

services. If they’re giving [inaudible 09:14] to the church,

they don’t get a percentage of it, they’re not a salesperson,

their salary stays the same.

It’s all on goodwill, so it’s much harder to sell to somebody. If

somebody is buying a product and you’re increasing their income

or business revenue, they’ll keep buying from you because they

get a personal benefit. For us, it’s the complete opposite.

We’ve still been able to find success even with having niche and

as 86% of them are broke or behind budget.

Trent: How much success are you guys having? How much revenue are you

guys doing a year?

Casey: We are over two million last year, for 2012. In 2013, we’re

projected to be 2.4, 2.5.

Trent: That’s a pretty nice growth rate.

Casey: Actually, this year will probably be the slowest one on

purpose. We grew about 832% over the last three years. We went

from about $212,000 in revenue to over two million in three

years. We need to catch our breath, hire the right people, get

the right people, get the systems in place, that kind of thing,

because we just grew [inaudible 10:18] and we’re trying to

organize now.

Trent: I’m so glad you mentioned that, because that’s the story I

really wanted to dig into. Let’s go back to the red truck,

let’s go back to pre-Infusionsoft. Tell us a little about what

your life and your business was like, and how you got into this,

because you had a real struggle. I want people to understand

that anybody can go from a real struggle to where you’re at now.

Casey: Here’s the deal – I was on staff at a church. At 27 years old,

I fired myself from being the CFO of a church, and I hired

myself as the CEO of a startup company, that I was going to go

out and help churches. I had no plan, no strategy, I’d never

started a business before. Here’s what I had – A wife that

wanted to stay home with a one year old baby, that is the

hardest work you can do, but unfortunately, she doesn’t get a

paycheck for staying home. That was that, and then we have

$36,000 saved up in the bank. I said, “We’re going to go after

this, I’ve got $36,000, and I think churches need to have money

for ministry. They need to learn how to raise money better.

I’m going to go out and do it.”

We started, and we did the good old fashioned Casey driving around,

in my 1998 Red Ranger Ford pickup truck that I got as a junior

in high school, and literally going into churches and walking up

to secretaries or assistants, and say, “Hey, I want to talk to

your pastor about our services.” Just doing the old fashioned

cold calling.

Also, cold calling anybody. In fact, I would drive by churches and

see the phone number on the side, and call it. It was cold

calling, driving around doing that. I did that for about two

years, and the strategy was so amazing that second year in,

here’s what the results were – I missed dad’s night at my

daughter’s school. People listening to this may or may not have

kids, or are maybe single or whatever, but the point is this.

I started a business, not only to help people but to create autonomy

where I could be at dad’s nights, and I was missing them. I was

missing family dinners, I was traveling around the southeast to

try to get deals. We ended up being $80,000 in debt in the

business. I had a business partnership I got into. I ended up

the worst, the bottom of the barrel when it comes business is, I

had to lay off three people at one time – Not because of

anything that they did, but I just thought business was all

about sales and growth, and I wasn’t managing the back end of

the business, and it just got away from me honestly. I had to

tell the ladies – I set them down and said, “Hey, in two weeks

we’re not going to have enough money to pay you, so I’m going to

have to let you go.”

Being at the rock bottom, at that point, I literally went around the

world. I went to the Philippines. Only a dumb entrepreneur

would do this, and I said I was going to go to the Philippines

to outsource, we did some outsourcing for churches, and decided

to outsource the outsourcing to try to save money. While I was

there, literally, I can’t get all the story, but a guy climbed

through my window, it was a totally random act of violence, he

came in literally with a knife, bloody, trying to kill me,

randomly. I ended up running down 13 flights of stairs with an

armed guard in the middle of the Philippines with a machine gun,

looking up at this guy hanging off the side of a building on the

13th floor getting in there to kill me. I know this is the

craziest story you’ve ever heard.

Trent: It is a little unusual.

Casey: Here’s the point – I got so low that I was traveling around the

world trying to save a business $80,000 in debt, with a bad

business partnership, and I was rock bottom. I said, “You know

what, something’s got to change.”

In that moment, at being at the bottom, and literally being around

the world and flying back is when I started the process of

realizing the problem’s not the market, the problem’s not the

economy, the problem is not anything – The problem is me. The

way were doing it wasn’t working, and we needed some changes.

That’s what happened in the first two years of our business.

That was probably too many details, but that’s the real story of

where this thing came from.

Trent: I wish we could have got those last two sentences out to the

entire planet, because you said something there that was so

incredibly profound, that entrepreneurs say, but that few others

do – The problem wasn’t the economy or the world, or this or

that or the other thing, the problem was you. That is something

I find is unanimous in entrepreneurs, we are never the victim.

Our success and failures are always our own. As soon as you can

adopt that mindset, in my opinion, you set yourself free,

because then you’re in control and you can choose to change the

outcome, which you did, and we’re going to tell that story.

I do want to offer up one other idea. You mentioned at the beginning

of this, that you were doing it the good old fashioned way, and

then you went on to tell how you were prospecting. It may have

been old fashioned my friend, but I don’t think it was good.

Casey: That’s funny. That’s true, it was terrible.

Trent: There was nothing good about making about making cold calls,

missing your daughter’s event, and being around the world, there

was nothing good about that.

Casey: [inaudible 16:03] everybody I met said this was how to do it –

You go to leads groups, and you pass business cards out, and

this how you do it, it was the old fashioned way to try to do

this deal, and we live in a different time. I just had to learn

the hard way. That’s what the story was.

Trent: You and me both. I have often said to people in conversations,

and maybe even on my show here, that I never get it right the

first time. I always duff it the first time, and then I get it

figured out the second time around.

Let’s get into your discovery of Infusionsoft, when was that?

Casey: That was at that point, right after that trip around the world,

about three years ago, middle of 2010 – I was searching online

and I saw a donate redirect on a website I was on, and it said

Infusionsoft, and I was curious what it was, so I Googled it and

went to their website. I was low with no money, no team, I was

worn out and they’re making these promises on their website like

– Infusionsoft is like having 25 people sell for you while you

sleep. It’s automated, and all this stuff.

I thought, yeah, whatever, but it was worth me putting in my e-mail

address for the demo. I got an e-mail back late at night, and I

thought man, these people are on top of it, they work all hours

of the night. I’d never heard of an auto responder before. They

sent me e-mails, and finally got me on the phone and sold me on

Infusionsoft, and I put money where my mouth was and did things

differently. That’s how we found it.

A big transition happened though – When I used what was called the

Infusionsoft Success Coach, there was Brandon Steinwig, he got

on the phone with me, and said, “Thanks for getting in on the

call today. When are you going to send your first broadcast?”

I said, “What’s a broadcast?”

He said, “Well, that’s why you bought Infusionsoft, right?”

I said, “Well, I bought it because of all these promises.”

He said, “Let me tell you what Infusionsoft actually does. Do you

have an e-mail address?”

I said, “We have 832 e-mail address.”

“Do you have anything you can sell online?”

“I’ve got $80,000 and a red truck if someone wants it.”

He helped me understand that you can sell something online, and that

people would buy stuff that we had done, it was just sitting

around my office. I was like, “I’ve got this old seminar I did,

we just recorded it because there was a machine there, so I

recorded the three hour seminar I did for church leaders.”

He said, “All right, let’s put this on a website, let’s send an e-

mail out to them. I’ll help you write the e-mail and get things


Within a couple of days, we put it up there and I sent the e-mail out

to the 832 people I’ve never e-mailed before. I said, “Hey, I

just want you to know, I’ve been driving around doing all this

high-end consulting, here’s a $99 product you can buy right


Within the first couple of days, we sold a few thousand dollars

worth. I was like, “You have got to be kidding me. I have been

doing all this stuff, driving around, missing dad’s nights,

trying to make money, and I just sent out one e-mail and made a

few thousand dollars?”

That was the point when everything started to change, it was an aha

moment for me.

Trent: In three years you go from guy in the truck, no money, to guy

with a $2 million plus business which has a very healthy profit

margin. I hope people who are listening to this get inspired

and fired up, and think man, if this guy can go from broke,

selling to churches that have no money to this wonderfully

successful business, maybe there’s something about this whole

marketing automation stuff that I could use in my own business.

The answer of course is “Yes there is.”

Let’s try to dive into more details, and let’s talk. It all starts

with lead generation, can you tell us about the process that

you’re using for attracting and capturing leads for your


Casey: Yep. Our attraction strategy is very simple. After going

through hell and back, we said, “We can’t do everything, but we

can do something.”

When we learned about attracting traffic to our website, we said,

“Here’s what we’re going to do – Number one, we’re going to have

blog.” Everybody on this call can have a blog, and everybody

can write three times a week. If you say you don’t have enough

time to write a blog three times a week, that isn’t true, unless

you’re incapacitated and almost dying in a hospital.

Every single person can do that and add value to people who could be

their potential customers. That’s the outpost through which all

of our stuff happens. We put stuff on the blog.

Our strategy to attracting traffic is that we know where pastors are,

unlike business people, because a bunch of business people

aren’t on Twitter. Most pastors, when you speak at a

conference, say how many guys are on Twitter, 80%–I don’t know

the exact number–but it would be 8 out of 10 people would raise

their hand. That’s where pastors are, so what we said is we’re

going to dominate one thing. I know there’s Google+, I know

there’s pay per click, I know there’s SEO, I know there’s

Facebook, I know there’s all these other things, but we’re going

to dominate one thing and what we know how to dominate is


I’m on Twitter, our teen is on Twitter, we know Twitter, we know

pastors on Twitter, so that’s what we decided to do. We put all

our eggs in the Twitter basket, and so here’s what we’ve done –

We went out and found celebrity pastors that we can either buy

their time, you can rent anybody’s time, and we get them on an

online event, and we have them tweet out the links to our

landing pages. Part of them being a part of it is that they’ll

promote it, and that drives a tremendous amount of traffic to

our website.

In the last three years, with the Twitter strategy of getting famous

people to tweet to us, and for us using Twitter to generate blog

content, we’ve grown our list from 832 contacts to about 47,000

contacts in a three-year time period. That’s what we did.

That’s it, and that’s all we did. We know there’s other things

we should do, and we’re going to do those in the future, but to

start out and be simple and dominate, that’s where we started.

Trent: Man, that is impressive. 832 to 47,000, wow. I think anybody

could do this in a business, they could find out who the

celebrities are in their space or niche, contact those folks,

because they’re all looking – Did you have to pay them, or did

they come on because they wanted the exposure?

Casey: Most wanted to just help people. Most wanted that, but we paid

them anyway. What I found is that you had to pay some, it’s

just the way it is. The point was, people hear that and go,

“Oh, I don’t have anybody. I’m in the salon business, there

aren’t any salon celebrities.” Yes, there are. There are

absolutely places you can go where there are salon people that

other salon people learning from and listening to.

People say, “I’m in a retail location, what is there to do in a

retail location?”

Well, that’s why smart companies have Justin Bieber as a celebrity

that drives people to their retail locations, because they’re

renting a celebrity at the top end of their of funnel. It

associates them with that person, and that is a lead driver, a

lead attraction, a lead magnet that they can pull people in.

Every single niche has people that people listen to. If you can

align yourself and go as hard as you can to reach those people,

don’t quit because the first one tell you no, you can get

aligned with those people and they’ll help you significantly.

Trent: That’s a very good idea. I want to give a quick shout out to a

resource on this topic of defining your nice, if you got to and on the navigation bar, you’ll see the life

cycle marketing guide, scroll down through the links, and that

links to a whole bunch of articles, but in the attract interest

category or section, you’ll find an article on how and why to

define your target market. There’s a whole bunch of details

there for you.

Let’s move on. Your strategy worked exceedingly well, your list grew

like mad. Here’s the thing – Just because they’re on your list

doesn’t mean they’re whipping their credit card out and willing

to buy your stuff, right?

Casey: Totally different.

Trent: Correct. So, what happens between getting them on the list,

and getting them buying stuff. There’s something that happens

between those two things, what is that?

Casey: What we found is that–I hate to say this, I probably shouldn’t

say this but I’ll say it anyway. It’s a great way to [inaudible

24:55]. Most people try to treat this like sex on a first date.

They get somebody on their list, and then they try to close to

the deal. It’s like, come on. People do that to me all the

time. I get on a list and they’re trying to close the deal with

  1. If that’s how you do real life, I’m sorry, but if you

understand that a healthy relationship is built over time and

built on trust.

Between attracting traffic and converting the sale there’s a whole

thing we call building relationships on the list so what we try

to do is build the relationship. Here’s a couple things that

have worked. I’m giving everybody practical things that you can

  1. I like everybody to know that I’ve had a red truck. The

reason why, is that the only thing you remember from my

introduction speech is that I had a red truck. It’s a red


I like people to know I have a family when they come onto our list.

When we’re e-mailing our list, and we’re sending stuff out, I’m

not only introducing them to stuff that can help them, I’m also

introducing them to my family. The reason why, is that we’ve

found people trust people and have an affinity for them if

they’ve seen their family, and they see they have kids, and what

they look like. Do they look like weirdos? Are they normal

looking? Can I relate with these people? That kind of thing.

The red truck story, like a story of struggle, here’s where

we’ve been, here’s how long we’ve been doing this, that sort of


The third thing we like to send is connecting us with famous people

in our niche so that we gain credibility. If we’re sending out

e-mails or doing videos and people see you and they associate

you with the leaders. That builds credibility. Inside of that,

we’re building a healthy, what we call like a dating

relationship via e-mail, via video, and warming people up. We

don’t send people directly into a sale unless they ask for it,

if they ask for it or click on a link to buy something, they can

go buy something. For most people, we do what’s called a warm-

up sequence. We are warming them for the point in which we feel

like we can move in to take action and create a purchase, so

that’s what we do.

Trent: Let’s dive into that a little bit. Let’s say I come to your

site, and I get one of your lead magnets, I fill out the form

and give you my name and e-mail address, hit the submit button,

the first e-mail, is it going to give me just what I asked for,

“Here’s the free report,” or whatever it was? Is there going to

be anything else in that first e-mail?

Casey: The first e-mail, we’re just giving them what they ask for, but

we’re also tell them there’s more coming.

Trent: What comes next? When do you introduce the truck, the family,

and the celebrities?

Casey: That’s a great question, and it depends on where they came

from. We have a very complex business now. I’m going to start

where it was really simple. We used to do 10 emails over 30

days as our warm-up sequence. The point of those e-mails was

those different things: likeability, trust and credibility. If

say something about the red truck, it’s, “Hey, I used to drive

around the Southeast in a red truck, and here’s what I learned

about that and learned from pastors.” Then we do something very


Again, the whole thing’s not about the red truck, it’s just a mention

in a what we call a by the way moment. We’re mixing those in

throughout the 10 over 30 days, and that’s how, when we first

started, when we were selling just one program and it was a very

simple operation, that’s how we did it and we mixed a little bit

of personality in with a lot a bit of helpful content. It was

about 20% personality, 80% helpful content.

Trent: Okay, excellent. Yep, go ahead.

Brian: Key in that, we would put in the PS, “Oh, by the way, we know

you downloaded this report on church giving, we have a cool

coaching program called Giving Rocket, and you can click here

and you can go check out all of that kind of stuff.” Again, it

was there. If somebody wanted to go get it, they could. During

that first 30 days, we’re building the relationship and

nurturing them and getting them to know us and us to know them.

I’ll tell you a trick – One of the best e-mails we ever do,

especially when you’re small, and you’re trying to get off the

ground or try to grow in Internet business, just do an e-mail

that says, “Would you please reply and let me know?” [inaudible


Just ask them a question and the question and the question of what we

found out is a question about either their personal life. I

would send one with a picture of my family in it, and say, hey,

tell me about their family. I’d love to get to know you and who

you have in your family. Again, I ask them to divulge some

information to me, and I divulge some to them, when it’s a two

way street and a conversation starts, those people end up being

low hanging fruit that will buy just about anything from you.

Trent: I do something almost like that now, and you’ve given me an

idea how to improve. Anyone who’s on my list will know that in

one of my first e-mails, I say what they’re struggling with the

most, and I ask them to reply because I want to get a

conversation going with these people, and it does work. Not

everyone replies of course, but the ones that do become your . .


Casey: No, but the people that are opening and reading and engaging

do, and those people, man, those are some of the best people.

Some of them are weirdos, but a lot of them are great people.

Trent: Absolutely, I couldn’t agree more. If you don’t have an e-mail

in your warm-up sequence that says reply, you might want to

consider doing that.

I’d love to dive deeper into what you’re doing with your advanced

strategy, but I’m going to keep on keeping on here, because

we’re going to run out of time, and there’s still some other

categories of life cycle marketing I want to talk about.

Before I move on, you’ve got the 30 day warm-up sequence. What

happens the end of those 30 days?

Casey: We transition them to a webinar sequence after that. A webinar

is where we sell the most, and so after 30 days we put them into

our webinar sequence. It’s built for over a two-week period to

get them on a webinar, and to get them to hear helpful content.

About 80% help, and there’s 20% sales. Sales is woven

throughout the webinar, and that’s where we get the most sales.

What we found is that when we consistently did webinars like that,

every single month per niche topic we have, that’s where the

huge growth came from, was consistently doing new content

webinars. They got everybody on the nurture list, after they go

warmed up to us, then we got them on the nurture sequence, which

is where we’d move people to listen, buy, and hopefully become a


If they don’t become a customer, they still get helpful content, but

they’ll be invited to the webinar that happens next month. If

they come to that one, we’ll come to different topics to reach

different types of people, so that’s how that works.

Trent: In you webinars, you mentioned you weave in 20% sales

opportunities. Do you make an offer at the end of the webinar

that says, “Hey, if you want more you can go this page and you

can click this buy button and get this thing.”

Casey: Our webinars are very simple in structure. Most of them around

about 45 minutes long, and the beginning of the webinar we

always do success stories. After I introduce myself and success

stories, we tell them that’s why we have Giving Rocket. You’re

going to see a button below as I talk throughout the rest of the

webinar, and you can just click that button, and by the way, you

can click it if you want to right now and see everything that’s

listed for this webinar offer, and my voice will keep playing

because it’ll open in another tab. That’s right within the

first five minutes.

We come back as we’re doing helpful content, so we’ll say that when

it comes to fundraising, here’s something they could do. And

that’s why we did it with Giving Rocket. With Giving Rocket, not

only do we tell you what to do, we’re going to do it for you.

It’s done for you, fundraising resources. If you click the

button below, you’ll see all the stuff you get da-da-da. That’s

what’s called a by the way pitch.

Then, at about the 70% mark of the way through, we turn it and we do

about a ten minute full on explanation of what Giving Rocket is,

why we have this Rocket, how it can help them, special offers

and bonuses if they do it within the next 48 hours, click the

button below, that kind of thing. Then go back to helpful

content at the end. We found that putting it about 3/4 of the

way thorough, with pitching the by the way moment as you lead up

has worked very well for us.

We have a page, and on the page it has one button, and the button is

always below they video, and they can click it, and there’s a

special offer per webinar. That’s how we sell.

Trent: Are these webinars live, or live simulation?

Casey: No. We got away from live webinars a long time ago. I am not

a fan of live webinars. If you want to do a live webinar,

that’s great for you. I don’t like doing them for many reasons.

Ours are prerecorded and pre-done in advance, and that’s how we

do all of them. [inaudible 35:00]

Trent: I would imagine, in you particular niche, these folks have

probably never even heard of a webinar simulation, and I know

that you’re not saying these things are live, but do you say

they’re recorded, or do you just not say?

Casey: We don’t say either. We say we’re going to have a webinar at

this time, and that you can sign up and show up. Here’s what we

do: On the webinar, I’ll say, “Guys, tweet us right now at the

Rocket Co., we’ve got our teams, they’re waiting right now.”

They’re interacting with The Rocket Company on the webinar, not Casey

Graham who’s doing the webinar, or Michael Lukaszewski, my

partner who’s doing the webinar. They’re interacting with the

company, not us as a right to interaction. We still get

interaction, but it’s with the company. We always have somebody

scheduled to be available during those times do all of our

social media interaction during the webinar.

Trent: Brilliant. What software tool are you using for the recorded


Casey: I have no idea. I know that the video is on Vimeo, but I don’t

know what the technology piece is. I’m not the technology guy,

so I have no idea for that. I just record the things and send

them to our team, and they do all the technology. I’m sorry, I

hate it that I don’t know that.

Trent: That’s okay. One of the ones that is very popular, it’s by a

guy named Geoff Ronning, it’s called Stealth Seminar. It’s been

around a long time, a lot of people use it, I’ve used it in the

past. There’s another one I’m not as much of a fan of us,

because I tried it and it sucked initially, but apparently it

works quite well now, it’s called Evergreen Business Solutions,

I think what its name is.

There’s more and more of these webinar recording software platforms

that are available, so if you just Google around you’ll find all

sorts. If you type the word review after whatever name, then

you’re looking for, you’ll find people reviewing those products.

Be mindful, when you’re reading those reviews, most people are

an affiliate with that particular software platform, so read

between the lines and make sure it’s as objective as a review as


Casey: That’s good, good words.

Trent: Now we’ve got some conversions happening, we’ve captured leads

in this discussion so far, we’ve nurtured them, we have

converted them with recorded webinars – Which is brilliant by

the way, because you can put it all on autopilot. Once they buy

something, they probably might by some other stuff. In other

words, would you like fries with that?

Could you talk about what you’re doing to upsell, cross sell, and

generate repeat business?

Casey: Yes. The upsell that we’re working very hard on, which has

worked very well, is something we’re really excited about is, we

sell on CustomerHub. CustomerHub was bought by Infusionsoft.

We use it deliver all of our content.

Let me tell you why we use it deliver all of our content – It’s that,

and I didn’t know this until recently, that’s why we implemented

all of this, this is what we’re currently doing. You can one

click upsells inside of CustomerHub. People that are in there

consuming content of module one of your program, how to be a

better real estate agent or whatever, you can have a little

video on the side or inside CustomerHub, that says click this

button and you can get this da-da-da for free, because you’re

watching module one and we’re going to give you a special offer.

They go to a secondary page in CustomerHub, and it’s a one click

purchase. It says, add this to my account or I agree with this,

or whatever. It’s just one click, and it goes on their credit

card, which is on file. That has been huge, because we’ve taken

all the go get your credit card back out to customers, and we

can just create banners on the side.

Does that make sense? I know I’m beating inside the weeds here, but

one click purchase inside of CustomerHub, and if it’s not

CustomerHub, you need a solution that creates a one click

solution for repeat buyers. It’s the PayPal effect.

What I mean is that people ask me to give money all the time, but

they’re little project fundraiser things they’re going to do.

Anytime there is a PayPal button, I will click the PayPal, and I

can just enter the amount and be done with it. I don’t have to

get my credit out and all that kind of stuff. That’s how your

customers feel.

Don’t make them get their credit card out again, that works really

well. That’s number one of selling inside, it’s where your

customers are consuming content. If you’re not giving them

places to consume content, I would rethink that. I would give

them a portal or a place to consume content that also has

natural upsell opportunity in the same area. That’s just my two

cents, that’s not how we started, that’s where we are now.

That’s number one.

Number two is what we’ve done as well is the good old fashioned build

the sequence out in advance. If somebody buys core coaching

project – Let’s just keep using Giving Rocket, to help increase

church giving – We just go ahead a write a three day sale into

that sequence that happens automated whenever they get to day

78, 79, and 80, whatever those days are, and those e-mails just


It’s a three day sale for everybody in that sequence, and it’s on a

product that is related to the core coaching program of Giving

Rocket. That is the fries that come with it. It can come two

months in, we have some six months in, some 12 months in, that

kind of thing. That works really well. That’s just scheduling

e-mails in advance for people who have currently bought


The third thing we do is we upsell [them the] store. At the point of

purchase, if you’re buying this, we’ll give you 50% off this

systems bundle or whatever, because you’re buying this product.

Hit add this now, and they can just click inside the

Infusionsoft checkout and add it, and we have a lot of people

who do that. It surprises me. A lot of people, and I don’t

know the percentage, click on that and take that offer. Those

are three ways we upsell.

Trent: All right. So I want to dive in those a little bit. Let’s start

at the back, and then we’ll go backwards. The way you just

described on the Infusionsoft order form, you can very easily

put an upsell on there, is that what you’re talking about?

Casey: Not the order form, but in the store. You can’t upsell on the

order form unless there’s something we don’t know about.

Trent: You can.

Casey: You can?

Trent: You can. I do.

Casey: I need a blog post or something, I would love to do that.

Trent: I’ll just send you an example on one of my order forms, and

you’ll see. I put a little video in. My videos are hosted with

Wistia, which is a sponsor of Infusionsoft, a shout out to them,

thank you for that. It says, “Hey, here’s another thing that’s

complementary with what you just bought, if you want to add it

to your order, click the button right below.” They click the

button, it adjusts the total, and they check out.

Casey: That’s great. We want to learn from that. Ours is done in the

store, if they buy a store product, the e-commerce thing

Infusionsoft provides.

Trent: I haven’t messed with the store yet, I’ll make sure I do that.

Maybe your way is better than mine, but I’ll make sure to share

a link with you.

Casey: That’s awesome.

Trent: I’ll also put it in the show notes, this episode, so if you’re

listening to this and you want to see what the heck I’m talking

about, there will be a link in the show notes. I’ll give it to

you at the end of the show, in the post production there will be

a link to that.

One other question I wanted to ask on point number two was – You said

you built the sequence out in advance. Are you, for Giving

Rocket, dripping the content over time?

Casey: Yes.

Trent: Can you talk about little bit?

Casey: It’s 12 module program. They get one module per month. They

can unlock all the modules by paying an upfront fee with a

discount, but we still drip the content out over time. The

reason we do that is that… This is where we’re different from

a lot of Internet marketers that just want the payment and all

that stuff. We found that there is a significant amount of

customers, that if they get all the content at once, they never

do anything with it.

Trent: Yeah, it’s too much.

Casey: What we’re trying to do is to continue to market them to watch

a video, not all the videos. Even if they buy up front, we

still drip out, “Hey, did you know in module two, you can watch

all this.”

We give them benefits to pull out and that kind of thing. They’re

busy, just like us – How many times have we bought a book or a

seminar, or something. With great intentions, you listen to the

first thing and then you don’t ever do anything else with it.

It’s because they didn’t continue to sell to you after the

purchase. We keep continually selling. Go to the content now.

There’s another reason we do this as well. Guess when they go

to the CustomerHub, and they watch a video inside CustomerHub,

guess what they’re seeing on the side?

Trent: An upsell.

Casey: Getting them to consume the content again and again we found

works well for us in all the programs we sell.

Trent: Do you have an e-mail sequence that is reminding them to go

back, saying that there’s more and more content?

Casey: Yes. It drips out. There’s two e-mails a month. One says,

there’s module one, it’s available. Here’s what’s you’re going

to learn, blah, blah, blah. In the second one, we do some kind

of piece that’s helpful. For example, something like a written

version of something helpful. We also do two other e-mails a

month to our customers that we can put in our sequence that are

sales e-mails that are upsells, “Hey, you’re in Giving Rocket

month 2, but did you know that we have something called

Volunteer Rocket, and if you click this link you can just add it

on with one click, and it’s only another $49 per month, and it’s

50% for the next… whatever.” I’m making that up, 90 hours,

whatever the deal is.

You can build that stuff in, build the upselling into your e-mail

sequencing of delivering your content. Most Internet marketers,

actually none I’ve bought stuff from do that.

Trent: Brilliant. Giving Rocket is a monthly pay for 12 months,


Casey: Yup. $99 a month for 12 months.

Trent: If they want to unlock it, get it all now, what is the discount


Casey: $997. They save about $200, basically two months for free.

Trent: Very good stuff man. You’re giving me lots of what I call

golden nuggets, so love getting those.

How are we doing for time? We’re at 44 minutes. I’ve a got a few

more questions in what I call the lightning round, and I want to

ask you how you’ve changed your life from the red truck to

today. Before I get to that, is there anything I haven’t asked

you, Casey, that you think has been a huge aha for you that you

want to share?

Casey: Here’s the number one I think would say creates the

competitive advantage. If somebody comes to your McDonald’s and

plops down a Burger King, what’s the difference? If somebody

comes and does your exact business, what’s the difference?

Here’s the number one difference is that we spend an inordinate

amount of time and money building relational capital with our

customers. We don’t Infusionsoft the whole customer life cycle

marketing, to me, it’s 50% of it. The other 50% is that it’s a

care software, it’s building – We are caring for our customers

in unique ways using Infusionsoft. We are reaching out to them

and deeply caring about what’s going into their lives, who they

are, who their family is, that stuff isn’t tactics, it’s core to


For anybody in the info business, or anybody that’s trying to sell

something online, or whatever you’re doing, whoever is listening

to this, I would say that your differentiator is not your

marketing, it’s not your product, but it’s the relational

capital you have with your customers. I would build in as much

capital as possible to love, care for, take care of them and

deliver a tremendous – you can sell an average product with

great customer care, and people will love you. A good enough


Everybody tries to have the best product, but they suck at taking

care of people. Take care of people, period. We have great

customer care, great response times, great service, all that

stuff, and that’s where we put our eggs for long term. It’s not

in being a better marketer. We love being the better marketer,

but what we believe is the best is taking care of people and

treating them right.

I know everybody will agree with that, but here’s my question: If I

looked at your business budget, how much are you spending in

customer care? How much are you spending in proactive customer

care? How much are you sending direct mail to them that’s not

asking for a sell, but thanking them? How much time and money

do you spend on referral partners, thanking them for referring,

not just asking for more referrals, and really building that

side of it out? That’s where the gold is.

You see I get real passionate when I talk about that, because most

Internet market people you learn from are just about getting

paid, and getting some money out of people, and selling. Or I

live on the beach, or I’m a guy that’s just on the mountain

somewhere and I just live in my mansion and I have all these

customers that pay me millions of dollars. Well, that’s great,

but we care more about our customers than anything else so

that’s what we spend time doing. Sorry for the long answer, but

that’s my heart.

Trent: That’s okay. Can you give us an example of exactly what you’re

just explained?

Casey: Every customer that buys from us, we send a personal,

handwritten thank you note every time they buy something. When

was the last time you or anybody listening to this has bought

something off an Internet marketing website and gotten a

handwritten thank you note from somebody on the team, that’s

personalized to you and what you bought? It’s rare.

Trent: Let’s go with… never.

Casey: That’s one that everybody listening can do. What people do is

they send that crap on Twitter. They’ll go “I got a thank you

note for The Rocket Company, I just bought a $79 product, and

they sent this.” Here’s the other thing – we ship a box.

In the box, we’re The Rocket Company, so we send a bunch of finger

rockets. They’re things you shoot across the room, and they’re

awesome. We send a coffee mug and a Rocket Company t-shirt

that’s actually a cool, nice looking t-shirt that’s not a piece

of crap. We send that out and tweet that stuff, they put it on

their Facebook pages, and they say, “The Rocket Company is over

the top when it comes to customer service, I just bought this

$99 product, and they sent all this stuff to me.” That’s

practical stuff we do.

The other thing I’d say we do is, we hired Call Ruby. Have you ever

heard of Call Ruby?

Trent: No.

Casey: It’s an outsourcing company that we use that answers our

telephones for us all the time. Nobody knows it’s Call Ruby,

it’s just an answering service. When anybody calls our phone

number, we always have somebody who picks up and answers the

phone, they get routed – They may go to voicemail ultimately, or

they may go to whatever, but when they call, somebody answers.

That’s a $250 a month investment we make, and it is a huge

investment because nobody ever says that they can’t get in

touch with The Rocket Company – They won’t e-mail me back, or

answer the phones, that sort of thing. Those are practical

things we do.

Trent: These finger rockets, the coffee mug and the t-shirt, you don’t

tell them in advance they’re going to get that stuff, do you?

It’s not on the sales page, you didn’t like say hey, if you buy

this, you’re going to get a t-shirt? No.

Casey: No. It’s surprise and delight.

Trent: How has all this good stuff changed your life from the days

back of the red truck?

Casey: We went from $80,000 in debt and then I had about $200,000 in

personal debt from a mortgage. About $300,000 in total, to now

our family is debt free and business is debt free. From a

personal standpoint, we’re all out of debt. That’s huge for us,

and the reason is not so people can go, oh great, you’re out of

debt, because nobody cares if I’m out of debt.

What is cool is now that we can make better decisions, because I’m

not making business decisions on I wish I could get out of debt.

It’s allowed us to then go we can invest more money here, we

can put more money there because we’re really caring about the

business not just about trying to make a rich owner. That’s


The second thing is from a time off perspective. Obviously, driving

around in a red truck doesn’t promote much time off. You know

what, if I’m your listener – People hate when people talk about

how good their life is, but honestly, selling online and selling

recurring income online – I took four weeks off last week and

went to Belize and went on a Disney cruise, and went to the

mountains with my family for some rest and relaxation. I wasn’t

worried one bit about what was happening because I know that we

have automated processes that work. We have a great team of

people of that are helping people step off. From a time off

perspective, it’s been huge.

The other thing is that we’ve been able to help so many more people

by Casey waking up and realizing that I was the problem, and

that I couldn’t do it one at a time, this is not working, and

being willing to say that I’m going to struggle as a business

owner and I’m the problem. There’s two problems and I’m the

problem and I’m the issue. From that point of saying that it

wasn’t anyone else’s fault but mine, and saying that we’re going

to create this has allowed us to reach so many more people.

Now we have 5000 people we’re serving. I couldn’t serve five

effectively when I was driving around doing it the old way.

We’re able to accomplish our mission, and that’s where the

personal satisfaction comes. It’s not that we created an upsell

opportunity, that doesn’t make me satisfied. What makes me

satisfied is when we get the success stories back in from some

guy in Australia who says “I’ve bought you product, and here’s

what’s happening in my church,” and we get a success story

unsolicited that comes back.

We get, I think the last count was 109 success stories in the last

100 days of people, unsolicited who just come in and say, “This

is working, thank you for what you do.” That’s really the pay

off and the reward, so that’s how my life has changed.

Trent: Yeah, that’s pretty cool. All right, lightning round – Three

questions and then we’re done. What are you most excited about

Casey for what remains of 2013?

Casey: I’m most excited about getting out of all the operational roles

from Rocket Company, and I’m focusing on creating the exact same

thing we did in the church space, I’m doing in the business

space. We’re creating a place for people listening to this, for

you, for anybody who wants to create content for the life cycle

marketing thing, for any piece of it, for attracting traffic,

for building relationship, to converting the sales in webinars,

and we’re creating a high end opportunity for them to come in,

and for me and my team to be content creators and do it for them

in two days by the time they walk out of the room.

We’re excited about doing that content creation machine which is

awesome. We found that that’s a huge thing. I can create a

webinar in fours hours and have people on it in 24, some people

think that’s hard to do. It’s so easy, so we’re just going to do

it for people who need to create content that will be part of

life cycle marketing. I’m super excited about that. That’s

probably the thing I’m most excited about right now.

Trent: What’s your favorite business book?

Casey: My favorite business book is “The Advantage” by Patrick


Trent: “The Advantage”, okay. Lastly, for anyone who wants to get in

touch with you Casey, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Casey: It’s Casey

Trent: Okay. All right, man. Thank you so much for being on the show.

It’s been a fantastic interview. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I

learned some things and I hope the audience has as well. In

just a few moments, when Casey and I sign off, I will announce

on how you can get the show notes. If you have questions for me

or Casey, just go to the bottom of the post where this will all

be help, and just leave your comments there and we’ll be sure to

leave you an answer.

Thanks very much, Casey.

Casey: Thank you.

Trent: To get the show notes for today’s episode, go to When you’re there, you’ll see all the links

we’ve talking about today, plus some valuable information you

can use to ignite more growth in your business.

If you’re listening to this on your mobile phone while you’re driving

or doing whatever, just send text “Trent” to 585858 and I’m

going to give you access to the Massive Traffic Toolbox, which

is a compilation of all the very best traffic generation

strategies that have been shared with me by my many proven

experts that have been guests here on the show. As well, you’ll

also be able to get a list of all my favorite episodes that I’ve

published thus far on the blog.

And finally, if you really enjoyed this episode, please go over to, where you’ll be able to find a link to

leave us a rating in the iTunes store. I’d really appreciate it

if you’d take a moment to do that, because it helps the show

build its audience, and of course the more audience members we

have, the more we can help to massively boost their business.

That’s it for this episode, I’m your host Trent Dyrsmid, and I look

forward to seeing you in the next episode. Take care, and have

a wonderful day.

Announcer: Thanks very much for listening to the Bright Ideas

podcast. Check us out on the Web at

About Casey Graham

caseygrahamIn 2008, Casey Graham started The Rocket Company out of a passion to reach church leaders worldwide – to train, speak, coach, consult – all to help the church. With barely any money in the bank, a stay-at-home wife and a one year old daughter, he set out on a dream which almost failed a few times. Five years later, The Rocket Company is reaching thousands of church leaders and expanding its service offerings. In 2013, they won Infusionsoft’s Ultimate Marketer of the Year award and are now helping other business leaders grow their businesses. Casey lives in Atlanta with his wife and kids.

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How to Measure Customer Engagement with Infusionsoft

When it comes to nurturing your prospects, by far the the most important thing you can to is to provide them with valuable educational content and then devote your energy to following up with those that are most engaged.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideThe challenge is to know which of your prospects are most engaged without having to actually call each and every one of them!

With traditional outbound prospecting techniques, most of our efforts are focused on following up with every prospect to ask some version of “would you like to buy now?”.

As you might guess, the effectiveness of this ‘old-school’ style of prospecting is rapidly deteriorating, because neither sales reps nor customers enjoy this type of phone call.

Worse yet, due to the manual nature of making so many calls to unqualified leads, it’s an extremely inefficient use of time!

A Much More Efficient Solution

If you are an Infusionsoft user, there is there is a much more effective way to achieve greater results with less effort (and frustration).

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done.

As you can see, this is an extremely efficient way to ensure that you are reaching out to your very best prospects for any topic or product that you have for sale.

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How to Track (and Respond to) Video Engagement Using Infusionsoft

When it comes to engaging your audience online, there is no substitute for video. With video, you can do more to convey what is unique to you and your brand than you can with virtually any other form of content.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideArmed with this high level of engagement, the question then becomes: what are you going to do with it?

With traditional video analytics, such as those provided by YouTube, all you get is the number of views, if anyone has favorited, liked, or disliked it, and if they’ve left any comments, which if you chose, you can manually reply to.

What is completely lacking is any sort of ability to automate a response to viewers based upon how much of the video they watched.

A Much More Efficient Solution

If you are an Infusionsoft user, there is a new application out called Plusthis which, among other things, gives you the power to fully automate how you would like to respond to subscribers that have watched some or all of one of your videos.

In the video below, I’m going to show how exactly how this can be done as well as give you several examples of the types of responses that you can very easily automate.

As you can see, this is an extremely efficient way to ensure that you are reaching out to your very best prospects for any topic or product that you are using video to promote.

There are literally endless ways that you could put this type of marketing automation into productive use. Below are just a few ideas to help you get the wheels turning.

  • Product launch
  • Blog post containing video
  • Affiliate promotion
  • Customer service

Note: If you are already a Bright Ideas subscriber and you clicked a link in an email to get to this post, just watch at least 3 minutes of the above video and then check your inbox. If you aren’t yet a subscriber, become one today and never miss out on another post like this one.

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Measuring Customer Satisfaction with a Net Promoter Score and Infusionsoft

According to Qualtrics, customer satisfaction is one of the most essential elements of customer retention, customer loyalty and product repurchase. The art and science of customer satisfaction involves strategically focusing on creating and reinforcing pleasurable experiences.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideEffective businesses focus on creating and reinforcing pleasurable experiences so that they might retain existing customers and add new ones.

Customer satisfaction matters. But where does a business get started?

How to Effectively Measure Customer Satisfaction

Measuring Customer Satisfaction is absolutely critical if you want to encourage the maximum number of referrals possible. Sadly, most small businesses don’t have a systematic way of tracking overall satisfaction.

Even worse is that fact that they have no way to receive instant notification of those who aren’t likely to spread the good word about their company, thereby leaving the unhappy customer to say whatever they like on their social networks!

When it comes to measuring customer satisfaction, one very popular method is called the Net Promoter Score.

The Net Promoter Score, or NPS®, is based on the fundamental perspective that every company’s customers can be divided into three categories: Promoters, Passives, and Detractors.

By asking one simple question — How likely is it that you would recommend [your company] to a friend or colleague? — you can track these groups and get a clear measure of your company’s performance through your customers’ eyes. Customers respond on a 0-to-10 point rating scale and are categorized as follows:

  • Promoters (score 9-10) are loyal enthusiasts who will keep buying and refer others, fueling growth.
  • Passives (score 7-8) are satisfied but unenthusiastic customers who are vulnerable to competitive offerings.
  • Detractors (score 0-6) are unhappy customers who can damage your brand and impede growth through negative word-of-mouth.

To calculate your company’s NPS, take the percentage of customers who are Promoters and subtract the percentage who are Detractors.


Image Credit:

Automatically Measure Customer Satisfaction

In the video below, I’m going to take just over 4 minutes to show you exactly how you can use Infusionsoft (affiliate link) to automatically measure your company’s Net Promoter Score.

More importantly, I’m going to show you how to configure Infusionsoft to automatically notify you whenever someone submits a score that makes them a detractor – so that you can take immediate corrective action.

How to Improve Customer Satisfaction with Infusionsoft

Improving customer satisfaction begins with talking to the customers that aren’t happy with the product or service that they have purchased from you. In the video above, I’ve shown you an extremely easy way that you can find out who these people are so that you can reach out to them.

Below, I walk you through what a campaign for measuring customer satisfaction could look like.


As you can see in the image above, customers will be routed down one of three paths (called sequences) depending on the answer they give on the web form shown below.


Once they make their selection and then complete the form, the magic of Infusionsoft takes over once again and routes them down the appropriate sequence (Promoter, Neutral, Detractor). The way this is done is via what is called a decision diamond.


Configuring a decision diamond is very easy to do. All you do is create rules that tell the diamond which way to route the user, based upon what actions they have taken; which in this example is the rating from 1 to 10.

Below is a partial screen shot of the decision diamond configuration screen.


Based upon the logic shown above, the user is now routed down the appropriate sequence.

For example, if the user had chosen a 9 on the form, they would be classified as a promoter and routed down the sequence shown below.


Had the user selected a 6 or lower, then they would have been routed down the detractor sequence, shown below.


Once you begin to track your Net Promoter Score, you are going to want to have easy access to it so that you can see at a glance the state of your overall customer satisfaction. This is easily accomplished by installing a widget onto your Infusionsoft dashboard. I’ve included a sample screenshot below.


As you can see, when you use the Net Promoter Score, combined with the automation power of Infusionsoft, you are going to have much more visibility into how your customers feel about your company’s level of service, and, perhaps more importantly, you are going to be able to instantly reach out to those that aren’t happy so that you can rectify whatever went awry before they start saying negative things about your firm on their social networks.

Additional Resources



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How to Segment Your Email List with Infusionsoft

When it comes to building a list of prospects for your product or service, by far the most important thing to do is to segment your list so that you can effectively communicate with each of your prospects as an individual, as opposed to just another subscriber.

bi-ultimate-marketing-automation-guideNot bothering to segment your list is, in my opinion, the equivalent of email marketing suicide because when you just send everything to everyone, your message relevance and open rates will suffer. As a result, the number of people that opt out of your list will also go through the roof.

How do I know? When I first started email marketing a few years ago, I was a total rookie and didn’t know anything about how to make it easy for my subscribers to segment themselves so they only receive the content and notifications that they actually want to receive. Like most rookies, I just sent everything to everyone.


How to Segment Your List Automatically

They key with segmentation is to allow your subscribers to segment themselves. This can be done directly or indirectly. In other words, you can segment by asking direct questions, or you can segment based on the actions your subscribers take.

Segmenting with Direct Questions

Direction questions work very well for segmenting. All you need do is ask your subscribers direct questions and then ask them to click links that correspond to their answers. In the video below, I show you how to do this.

Another way to use direct questions to segment your list is to allow your subscribers to choose the categories for the types of content that they would like to receive. In my case, I have a form that looks like the image below. My subscribers can update this form anytime they wish, just by clicking a link in the emails they receive from me.

Manage Email Preferences

On the backend, Infusionsoft is applying or removing tags that correspond to the check boxes on this form. When the boxes are checked or unchecked, the decision diamond (enlarged in the image below) then looks at the logic and routes the subscribers down all the appropriate sequences. Each of the sequences then are set to either apply or remove the appropriate tag.


Below is a screenshot of a portion of the decision diamond that I enlarged in the image above. As you can see, configuring the logic is pretty simple. You just click each of the blue links and then Infusionsoft will give you a choice of your available options for each rule. No programming experience is needed whatsoever.


With this automation in place, we now have lists of people who have these tags that we can send broadcast emails to when we publish new content.

For example, if a subscriber was to place a check in the box for case studies (above), then whenever we publish a new case study, only the subscribers with that tag in Infusionsoft would receive that notification.

Indirect Segmentation

With indirect segmentation, instead of asking direct questions, you are going to segment based upon your subscriber’s behavior.

For example, if you published 5 pieces of content (over time) that all revolved around the topic of lead generation and you then emailed your list each time you published a post, whenever a subscriber clicked the link in an email notification you sent them, it would be a pretty safe bet to assume that this particular subscriber was pretty interested in lead generation.

In fact, if a subscribe were to click all 5 of the links in all five of the emails, the chances that they are interested in learning more about lead generation would be extremely high.

Fortunately with Infusionsoft it is extremely easy to identify these hot prospects with something called Lead Scoring – which I will cover in more detail in an upcoming post.

Until then, just know that you can easily apply a tag for every link click that occurs, and in aggregate, the tags give you the ability to segment your list in pretty much whatever way you would like. This is made possible via the very powerful contact search capabilities that Infusionsoft has built into the CRM portion of their application (shown below).


Other Segmentation Criteria

Depending on your business, you may want also want to segment your list in a variety of other ways. This can be accomplished by adding additional questions to your lead capture forms. Just bear in mind that adding too many questions to your lead capture forms will result in diminishing returns as the more info you ask for, the lower your conversion rate will likely be.

Here are a few ideas on questions you might want answers to:

  • Industry
  • Organization Type
  • Job Function
  • Buying Frequency
  • Seniority Level
  • Education Level
  • Interest Level
  • Company Size
  • Geography

To see a more complete list, be sure and check out 27 Ways to Slice & Dice Your Email List for Better Segmentation from Hubspot.

Want to Learn More?

As important as list segmentation is, it is only one small part of an effective overall marketing strategy. The real key to running a success small business is to understand and embrace something called Lifecycle Marketing. If this is a concept that is unfamiliar to you, be sure to check out our Lifecycle Marketing Guide for Small Business as well as to register for our next webinar.

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Bob Burg on The Five Laws of Stratospheric Success

Are you a go getter? Do you want more out of your life than you are currently achieving, but aren’t sure exactly what to change?

If you are, you are not alone.

In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast my guest on the show today is Bob Burg, co-author of the best selling book, The Go Giver, a TheGo-Giverbook that I so thoroughly enjoyed that I bought 10 extra copies to give to all my closest friends. This was one of the better business books that I’ve ever read.

When you listen to this interview, you are going to discover:

  • The five stratospheric laws of success
  • The importance of each law with specific examples of how to implement it
  • How sales skills and techniques work in concert with the laws
  • How being an author has created huge opportunities for Bob
  • How he converts his site’s traffic into customers using Infusionsoft
  • How to use marketing automation to score your leads
  • How to use lead scoring to segment your list automatically

And so much more…

Links Mentioned

Mike Michalowicz interview

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Bob Burg

BurgHeadshot2010Bob Burg is a sought-after speaker at corporate conventions and for entrepreneurial events. He has addressed audiences ranging in size from 50 to 16,000 — sharing the platform with notables including today’s top thought leaders, broadcast personalities, Olympic athletes and political leaders including a former United States President.

Although for years he was best known for his book Endless Referrals, over the past few years it’s his business parable, The Go-Giver (coauthored with John David Mann) that has captured the imagination of his readers.

It shot to #6 on The Wall Street Journal’s Business Bestsellers list just three weeks after its release and reached #9 on BusinessWeek. It’s been translated into 21 languages. It is his fourth book to sell over 250,000 copies.

Bob is an advocate, supporter and defender of the Free Enterprise system, believing that the amount of money one makes is directly proportional to how many people they serve. He is a founding and current board member of Club 100, a charitable organization focused on helping underprivileged local area youths. A lover of animals, he is a past member of the Board of Directors for Safe Harbor, which is the Humane Society of Jupiter, Florida.

Digital Marketing Strategy: How Laura Roeder Used Infusionsoft to Achieve an 8x Revenue Increase in Just Two Years

Would you like to fire all your clients and completely re-invent your business if doing so was going to give you more freedom and more profits?

Would you like to use content marketing to attract new customers?

That is exactly what Laura Roeder did.

Two years ago, Laura was a web designer, working from home earning just shy of $100,000. Today, her company is doing just over $1M, she has four employees, and she runs her company while traveling the world.

Suffice to say, she’s got a lot more freedom (and money) today than she did two years ago – thanks largely to a shift in her strategy and the use of Infusionsoft.

In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast, Laura is going to share with me exactly how she made the transformation. In our discussion, you will hear the two of us talk about:

  • how to create business fame and why it’s so important
  • how to garner the attention of major media outlets
  • her (very successful) guest posting strategy
  • how she attracted so many people to write for her blog
  • how and why she repurposes much of her content
  • how she’s built her team of superstars
  • how content marketing has played a huge role in her traffic generation
  • her business model and the software she’s using to run it
  • how she determines which courses to create and how she creates them
  • how she is working towards being more metrics driven
  • how she is using Google analytics and Kiss metrics to help her make better decisions
  • her favorite blogs
  • her favorite book
  • and so much more….

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Watch Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Laura Roeder

roederLaura Roeder is a social media marketing expert who teaches small businesses how to become well-known and claim their brand online.

She is the creator of LKR Social Media Marketer and Creating Fame and author of Facebook Fame: The Facebook Marketing Bible For The Small Business.

Digital Marketing Strategy: How Yvonne Halling Used Infusionsoft to Double Her Revenue in 12 Months

Do you ever look at tools or technology for your business and think, I would love to have it, but I can’t afford it?

Do you feel like you have what it takes to make your business grow, yet, growth is still eluding you, or you are working way to hard to get it?

If you answered yes to either of these questions, you are not alone.

In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast, I’m joined by Yvonne Halling, owner of the Les Molyneux bed and breakfast in Champagne, France, and recent winner of Infusionsoft’s best in class for customer service award. After seeing that a B&B had been recognized by Infusionsoft for excellence, I just had to find out what Yvonne was doing that was so unique.

Don’t forget to check out our post Ontraport vs. Infusionsoft for comparisons and analysis.

In her and I’s discussion, you are going to hear us talk about:

  • how she doubled her revenue in just 12 months after beginning to use Infusionsoft
  • how she is using marketing automation to sell more to her guests once they’ve booked a room
  • how she is getting a top trip advisor rating from virtually every guest without having to take the time to ask
  • the ONLY two key activities that she now focuses on in her business
  • how her success lead her to create an entirely new business that provides coaching to other bed and breakfast owners
  • which two books radically altered her thinking a few years ago
  • how her new belief system is actually what lead to all the success she is experiencing
  • the content that she’s put on her site that has increased engagement with her clients exponentially
  • and so much more

It really doesn’t matter if you run a B&B or not, this interview is packed with golden nuggets that will benefit any entrepreneur who is struggling to do it all themselves.

Regardless of where you are at in the process of growing your own company, this interview is one you can’t afford to miss. Trust me.

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Watch Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Yvonne Halling

I’m Yvonne Halling and I YvonneHalling run a Bed and Breakfast business.  I’m currently in the heart of the Champagne region of France, and I welcome people from all over the world, helping them to discover the hidden gems of Champagne.

I opened my B&B business in 2001, before the internet!  How life has changed since then.  If you’ve been in this business for any length of time, you’re sure to be able to relate to that.  And if you’re new to the business, then you won’t know what it was like back in the day when communication was much more limited.

I believe we are lucky to have witnessed the explosion of communication channels, which can only be a force for good.  If we embrace the changes, then we will see what great opportunities lie ahead for us all.

The Bed and Breakfast business is in a unique position now to embrace online technology and add value to our local communities in a way that simply wasn’t possible 10 or even 5 years ago.  My philosophy is that as we welcome more and more people from diverse walks of life, we have the chance to learn about and understand more human beings, bringing value to our own communities and theirs, through the sharing of our knowledge.

My business philosophy is simple:  I bring in the guests, which means that I buy more bread from the local baker, buy more meat from the local butcher, bring diners to the local restaurant, bring buyers of champagne to the local producers, bring clients to local attractions, bring employment to my cleaners, gardener and book-keeper, and give business to the local laundry service.  I buy local produce wherever possible, which supports local business, and for anyone who I trust and who has something valuable to offer, I offer their products for sale at the B&B.

This is simply how, I believe,  all businesses must operate in the 21st century, rather than the relentless quest for more and more profit.

And the funny thing is that as soon as I had adopted this philosophy, more and more profit came to me, like magic!