Digital Marketing Strategy: Dr. Dustin Burleson on How He Tripled His Revenue Using Marketing Automation

How would you like to triple your company’s revenue in just 18 months? Sound too good to be true?

It can be done. In this episode of the Bright Ideas podcast, I’m joined by Dustin Burleson, a practicing Orthodontist and an extremely talented marketer. By focusing on marketing excellence, Dr. Burleson has been able to build a practice that has 4 locations, 35 employees, 7,500 patients, and annual revenue of just over $4 million.

Best of all, Dr. Burleson has increased his vacation days from just 5 to over 40 per year!

In this exclusive interview Dr. Burleson will go into detail explaining how he:

  • Increased revenue by over 600% since deciding to focus on improving his clinic’s marketing
  • Attracts new patients
  • Retains existing patients
  • Reduced his patient acquisition cost by 56%
  • Increased revenue from referrals from just 20% of total revenue to over 60%
  • Managed to go from 50 new patients per month to over 170 without overwhelming his staff
  • Makes use of high quality free information reports to capture the interest of prospective patients, and then, how he’s automated the entire follow up sequence that last for 11 months after the initial inquiry which has resulted in 30% more calls from these prospective patients
  • Advertises in specific locations to drive more traffic to the portions of his website that offer these valuable free information reports
  • Configured his systems to alert his staff to which patients and prospective patients require a personal touch, and when that touch is needed so that no one falls through the cracks
  • Created an irresistable offer that gets bundle in with routine treatments so that he is able to protect his pricing

…And so much more!

Links Mentioned

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

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Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:


Trent: Hey there. Welcome to the Bright Ideas Podcast. I’m your host

Trent Dyrsmid and this is the podcast for marketing agencies and

entrepreneurs who want to discover how to use content marketing

and marketing automation to massively boost their business. My

guest on the show today is Dustin Burleson of Burleson

Orthodontics. Burleson was started in 2006 with just one

employee and no customers.Today Burleson is doing over $4 million a year with 35 employees,

four locations and over 7,500 active patients. In 2013 Burleson

was named as one of Infusionsoft’s Ultimate Marketer of the Year

finalists, and after hearing its story of how using Infusions

software tripled the size of this company, I knew that I really

wanted to have Dustin on the show.But before we get to that I have a couple of special announcements,

including my technology tip. So this one is, if you use Chrome

and you frequently need to access the same kind of set of

webpages in multiple tabs, there is a free chrome extension

called FreshStart Cross Session Browser Manager. So if you just

Google Chrome extensions, it’ll take you to chrome extension

store where you can get this. So if there’s like five or six

tabs. For example, for me, I have like this social, so it will

open up Facebook, it will open LinkedIn, it’ll open YouTube and

it’ll open up Twitter. So I don’t have to open those manually, I

just click this button and all of them just pop up. That’s

exactly what Fresh Start will do for you.The next thing I want you make you aware of is my upcoming webinar on

Lifecycle Marketing. Now, this a topic if you aren’t familiar

with lifecycle marketing, you really need to be because it’s

what separates the profitable businesses from the ones that are

struggling. Lifecycle marketing comes down to seven steps:

attracting traffic, capturing leads, nurturing those prospects,

converting those prospects to customers, delivering your product

or service, and satisfying the customers with, not even just

satisfying wowing your customers, increasing revenue with

upsells and cross-sells and then motivating your customers to

generate referrals.And as you are going to hear in this episode, my guest used to get

15% to 20% of his new clients from referral now he gets 60% of

his business from referrals from existing clients. So lots of

good stuff to come in this interview, to sign up for that

webinar just go to and you’ll be able to be on

the list and you’ll receive a notification every time that I do

that webinar.So that said, let’s transition over to my interview with Dustin. Hey

Dustin. Welcome to the show.Dustin: Hi Trent, thank you so much for having me.Trent: No, it’s my pleasure to have you on the show. So for the folks

who have just heard the introduction that I read off for you,

but don’t really know who you are, maybe just in your own words

give us a little short brief introduction of who you are and

what you do.

Dustin: Sure. I’d love to. So by trade I’m an orthodontist, so I work

on teeth and help mostly kids and some adults straighten their

smiles and improve their bites. We also work with cleft lip and

palate kids. So by professional, I’m a trained orthodontist, but

over the years of growing into coaching and consulting other

doctors, dentists and certainly orthodontists on how to improve

the business life, how to improve their practices and actually

create a lifestyle that’s not so much about working in the mouth


So that’s a little bit about me, I’m from Kansas City, Missouri. Have

a wife and three beautiful children and we have four locations

throughout the Metro area and about 35 employees and we’ve grown

from zero patients and zero employees. Actually, I was the first

employee back in 2006. So it’s been a rapidly growing ride and

we’ve been enjoying it quite a bit.

Trent: And no kidding, that is a phenomenal accomplishment and so for

the folks who are listening how I met Dustin was at InfusionCon,

which is Infusionsoft’s Annual Conference, and he was nominated

as one of the three finalists for Ultimate Marketer of the Year.

So this is going to be a conversation that has a lot to do with

Infusionsoft because, and I’m going to let Dustin explain it to

you, it had a pretty big impact on his business.

Do you want talk before we get into the how you did what you did? Can

you just tell us a little bit about the results that you

achieved Dustin? So the folks who are listening can figure out

hey should I keep listening to this interview or should I skip

on and do something else today.

Dustin: Yeah, so for those who are result-driven much like I am, I will

fast-forward to the end result and say that since we started

with Infusionsoft our company grew 600% and that was beyond our

a pretty good-sized company. So we started getting seriously

involved with using Infusionsoft on a day-to-day basis to run

our operations. We purchased the software probably in 2009 and

like a lot of users kind of dabbled with it and once we got

really serious with it in 18 months it grew our business over


So it’s been a tremendous result for us and I would encourage anyone

who’s not using it to at least look it up and can consider that

because we’re going to talk about, today’s trend is the nuts and

bolts of how that’s happened and it’s as Trent knows a very,

very powerful piece of software and it’s completely changed not

just our business but my personal life as well. If you are

entrepreneur looking to get some free time back, enough to spend

some more time with your family and to not be involved in the

doing day-to-day routine, repetitive tasks that Infusionsoft can

totally change your business life and it’s certainly done that

for us.

Trent: And for me as well because I’m also a very happy Infusionsoft

user and by the way a few, a lot of my audience is not in your

business Dustin, they have their own marketing agencies or

variety of other types of small businesses and if that’s you and

you’re listening don’t tune out because the principles that

we’re going to talk about in this interview are applicable to

your businesses just like they were applicable to Dustin’s and

this is going to be, it could be a game changer for you.

Obviously for Dustin using the software it was. For me, it has had a

huge impact on my business as well and when I was at InfusionCon

I met entrepreneur after entrepreneur after entrepreneur who

were just raving fans and one of them in fact said, “With

Infusionsoft you can hit 1 million by accident.” I thought was


Dustin: That’s a great point. Yeah, that collection of individuals and

businesses is unlike anything else on the planet. If you’ve

never been on InfusionCon, this is on YouTube, I agree with

Trent. This is something that you really can get so many great

ideas and most of them, you had a great point which is most of

our big breakthroughs in business have come from outside of our


So the idea of, well, I’m not orthodontist and I’m not from Kansas

City, so I’m going to tune out to this episode and listen to one

when Trent starts to talk about my business and my particular

part of the world, I would caution you against our biggest

breakthroughs have come from outside of our industry. So the

hours we set, how we train customer service positions in our

office, down to how we communicate with our patients, none of

that I have learned from other orthodontist. So it’s a great


Trent: Yeah, and thank you for echoing that. All right. So let’s jump

into, I want to make sure that people understand when they might

want to consider using Infusionsoft, so tell us a little bit

about your business and what you were using before Infusionsoft.

Dustin: Good, it’s a great question. We tried everything because we hit

a wall. I think when you look in your business and say, “It

seems like there’s something that could be a little bit more

streamlined.” In other words, we seem to be doing the same task

over and over and over again.

So a good example might be a new client or a new customer welcome

sequence. So they purchase a product or service from you and you

want to follow-up with that individual to make sure they’re

happy with the product or service. You want encourage referrals

and get feedback, you want to make sure that they come back

again and again to purchase either another product or to renew

that service.

For us that sequence was the same thing over and over again. It had

to be somewhat customized to the individual. But we were wasting

a lot of time manually printing letters, manually sending email,

so we start to look at some email automation tools, constant

contact and mail jumper to the very entry-level one of those,

AWeber was a little bit more sophisticated, but when you get

into that world of marketing automation, you’ll quickly hear

about or meet someone or even get into a sequence from a company

that’s using Infusionsoft, and you start to compare the benefits

of Infusionsoft to a lot of the others. We found it was far


And so our initial drive to get into something this sophisticated was

to take that the mundane, those repetitive tasks you’re doing

over and over again, your staff is just completely strapped down

with these repetitive tasks. For us, getting that off of our

staff so they could focus more on spending time with our

clients. That was a huge initiating drive for us.

Trent: And so just so that people know, Infusionsoft is your customer

relationship management software. It’s your e-commerce shopping

cart software. It’s your email marketing software and your

marketing automation software all wrapped into one beautiful

package that works together. And I think that’s one of the

reasons why it’s so popular because when you’re using multiple

systems, trying to get them all talk to each other can be a real

nightmare, especially for someone who’s not technical and

doesn’t understand what an API is and doesn’t want to hire a

programmer and all this other stuff which causes friction in the

whole idea in marketing and in running your business is to avoid


All right, so Dustin, can you just tell us a little bit at the high

level and we’re going to drill in with details here and follow-

up questions, but how are you using Infusionsoft in your


Dustin: At this level, we get this question a lot, and we kind of joke

with a smile and say, “I’m not sure of any way that we’re not

using Infusionsoft.” So it’s from everything as like you

mentioned with marketing. So how we attract and convert leads

into customers, how we nurture those customers to encourage


So we’re using it to drive new business. We’re using it then at that

point with new customers to drive new referrals. We’re using it

to increase their satisfaction, so all our surveys and all of

our quality assurance measures are run through Infusionsoft. If

you boil down to the very nitty-gritty, we’re actually using it

to train new staff member. We’re using it in HR. We’re using to

nurture referrals from, for me would be B2B type referrals. As a

dental specialist we’re using that to nurture relationships

amongst our general dentists to send us patients.

So on every level of the business, it’s back to basic management.

Peter Drucker says, “If there is something you can’t measure,

you really can’t manage it,” so any number in your business that

you’re measuring you can turn that on to Infusionsoft. So for us

it was new clients for us, so generating new patients. Where are

all those new patients are coming from.

So managing those leads, in other words automating the process of a

patient or a parent requesting a free report that now goes out

automatically, we don’t have to put it in the mail, it’ll

actually would go to our fulfillment center of its requested via

mail, and go via email if it’s requested that way. That’s all

automated. This happens without us even knowing it, you just set

up inside Infusionsoft and let it run.

So new patient management has been huge for us. We went from about 50

new patients a month to over 170 new patients a month just

through automation because we couldn’t keep up with it. It

wasn’t consistent and it really was kind of a mess if you’re

trying to manage it manually. So, on every level business we’re

kicking numbers that matter and we’re attaching and automating

the steps in the process to increase those numbers.

Trent: I want to go down my first of many rabbit holes here for just a

second because you talked about, you’re going to give a free

report and automate it and so forth. And I don’t know that

everyone that’s listening to this I understand exactly what you

mean, but I think there’s some people on who are listening who

might not grasp this free report lead generation what is that

all about?

So essentially what you’re doing is you’re putting up a page where

you’re offering a report that is relevant to a problem that

people are searching for? What’s the report? How you get traffic

to the page and then and don’t spend too much time on this

because there is so much other stuff I want to cover, but I

didn’t want to skip past because I think it’s important.

Dustin: I think what we found is a in my industry, a lot of parents are

considering not just, you know, do I need orthodontist, but when

should the kids go see an orthodontist. When should they get

braces? So we started looking at a lot of, you can go to Google

and actually see what people are searching for in your industry,

and for us it was a lot of parent searching for, “How much do

braces cost,” and “When is the best time to get braces?”

So we generated and created free reports that answer those questions.

So what you’re going to do is take really a question or problem

you can solve for your customer, your client or your patient and

you’re going to boil that down into just great contents. So this

is not a sales message. This is all about providing great

content to potential customers and the goal is to get those

potential customers to raise their hand and say “I’m interested.

This is something I’m interested in.” And then you capture their

contact information.

So we would generate free reports on landing pages and you can

advertise those through, for us, a lot of mommy blogs, so a lot

of moms that are talking about events in our area will advertise

on those websites. We’ll advertise in traditional media, we’ll

advertise on the radio, Google AdWords is a great lead

generation tool. We’ll also do some Facebook advertising.

So any lead source that works for you. In other words, where your

clients are coming from, whether it’s the Yellow Pages or

newspaper print, postcards, webinars, what you want to do is

think about how can I solve a problem for this patient or this

customer or this client, and then how can I then nurture that

relationship? Because not everybody is ready to buy.

So for lead generation for us we’ve automated that process and in

turn we’ve had parents stay in our sequences for up to 11 months

before they make the decision to actually call one of our

offices and schedule a complementary consultation. So for us

that blew our minds. We assumed when parents were ready for

braces, the buying cycle was within a few weeks, maybe a few

months, but a lot of these parents are staying in the sequences

for 11 months. Could you imagine trying to nurture someone for

11 months and keep in contact with them manually? For me it

would be impossible.

Trent: And that’s just what I was going to say is that the whole

automation of the follow-up is one of the reasons why

Infusionsoft, people that use it are such evangelists for it

because there’s no way you could do this manually. The wheels

would fall off, like I have a friend who’s a realtor, and he

spends all this money on postcards to generate leads and his

call to action is a phone number, and I said to him, I go, “Why

do you not capture an email address?” He goes, “Well, it’s risk-

free. They can call.” And I said, “No, that’s not risk-free,

people don’t want to talk to you yet.” So I said, “What you’re

doing with the people that don’t call?”

Okay, so now he started to capture email addresses. But he doesn’t

have an automated follow-up system so they get the email to

respond, and they reply back and if the person doesn’t write

them back, again they don’t do anything more with that email

address ever.

Dustin: Wow.

Trent: And I said to him, I said, “Do you understand how much money

you’re leaving on the table?” And so I sent him some podcast on

realtors and so forth and so the light bulb is starting to go on

and I hope that if you’re listening to this and you’re capturing

email addresses and you don’t have an automated follow-up system

that allows your prospective customer to self-segment themselves

and will get into that little bit later on, you’re really

probably leaving a substantial amount of profit on the table.

Dustin: Absolutely.

Trent: Okay. Wow. I actually, my next question can you describe your

process for tracking and capturing leads? I think we just kind

of covered that one. All right.

So the content that you are using for lead magnets are all very heavy

information base to answer questions that people have and I want

to reference another podcast that I did. If you go to and you search for Marcus Sheridan, he’s the pool

guy, and he has got the most highly trafficked pool website in

the world because he just decided to create a whole bunch of

content to answer people’s questions. So really don’t

underestimate the value of the simplicity of just thinking what

are people asking before they buy my stuff and figure out a way

to get that information to them.

All right. What is next, because you just answered a whole bunch of

my questions in advance. So, yeah, you said the results from

lead generation you went from 50 new patients a month to 170 a

month that’s pretty substantial.

All right. Let’s talk about nurturing and conversion then because

just because and you alluded to this stuff and you said some

people stay in the nurturing process for 11 months. So

obviously, not everybody that gives you their contact

information is in the same space from a psychological buying

standpoint. So can you talk a little bit about how you nurture,

and if you’re segmenting, how you segment?

Dustin: We do. So I mean the nurture process for us and Infusionsoft

has completely changed our business and the reason is obvious.

When you look at, so a good example is, you know, the other day,

I’ll tell you a story. I was at Costco and if have Costco, these

are like big-box retail stores, lots of people buying some

things for the business and buying some fruit and berries for

the kids at home and I see this lady. I kind of tell you she is

looking at me and she’s looked over a couple times and we’re

walking out to the parking lot, and she says, “Are you an

orthodontist?” I said, “Yeah,” and now my brain is rapidly

trying to think of who is this mother and what is her child’s

name because I’m assuming she’s a patient of ours.

And she could kind of tell that I was just hesitating and she said,

“We’re not a patient of yours yet, but we’re coming to see you

tomorrow. We have a new patient exam schedule tomorrow.” And I

thought that was really odd, and she said, “Well, we’ve seen

your YouTube videos and then we’ve requested some information.

We read one of your books.”

And so we went back and I made a mental note to remember her name and

I thanked her, and I said, “I’ll see you tomorrow and I went and

looked her up and she was one of these parents inside

Infusionsoft who had been in the sequence for months and months

and months, and so nurturing that that individual when finally

and here’s the main point, when she was ready to schedule the

appointment we were there and available to her. That wasn’t on

our terms.

It wasn’t on our time, it was on her terms and her time because what

we did previously to nurture was you would call the office much

like a real estate friend after lead generation via postcard or

direct mail of some sort and you would request some information.

We would send it to you and if you didn’t schedule appointment

we really didn’t do much else. We just assumed you were

disinterested and went somewhere else.

And what we found if you study consumer trends is we’re wildly

distracted. That mom, she didn’t purposely neglect scheduling an

appointment for her child, she’s got busy, she got busy with

life. I talked to a mom the other week that she had… so our

customers are primarily mothers aged 22 to 44 and she had eight

volleyball games in one weekend with her kids.

Trent: Wow.

Dustin: And so, this isn’t a mom who is disinterested in doing what’s

best for her child or who doesn’t want to buy what you have to

offer. She just really, really busy and what we want to do is be

there when that mom is finally ready to make the decision to

come into our office. So for us nurturing is a monthly process.

It’s highly loaded to the front-end.

So if you get into one of our sequences, we communicate with you

pretty frequently. We’ve tested this. We found that people, if

you give them a free report, and you don’t say anything else for

a couple weeks they usually forget about you. So we’re

frontloading the information heavy in the first two to three

weeks and then we stay in touch each month via newsletters, via

audio CDs that go out talking about specific topics. We have

free books, free reports, we sponsor a lot of events in the

community and we remind those people that we’re going to be

sponsoring those events. So it’s a monthly process and when that

patient or parent is finally ready to say yes, I can guarantee

you we’re the only doctor that stayed in touch with them that

long. So we become the obvious choice.

Trent: That is the beauty of it. Can you talk a little bit in detail

about frontloading the follow-up? Can you give us some

specifics, how many emails in the first couple days or week or

two-three weeks?

Dustin: Exactly, Trent. We tested this, so we used to do a weekly

email. If you got into one of our reports, free reports, or a

free audio CD or a free book, what we would do is we would send

you a thank you email that sent you the free report that you

requested and then a week later, we would follow up with you and

then in a week later we’d follow up to you again and a week

later, so it was about four-week process.

And what we’ve done now is push that higher into the frontend, so

those first-three emails go out on days one, three, five and

seven. So we’ve communicated with you four times in the first

week and then our conversion. In other words, patients who then

call us after those initial contacts has gone about 20% to 30%.

Because think about anything you’re ready to buy, whether it’s a car,

may be a jet ski or maybe a new boat, in this part of the

country we’re coming up on warmer spring weather so it’s getting

close to boating season and if you’re interested in buying a

boat and you call a boat store and ask for some information and

they send you some information and you don’t hear back from them

for a week. There’s a lot that can happen in a week. Another

opportunity might come up, you might get busy at work, you might

get distracted, get distracted with free vacation offer from

some other company.

And the reality is so we’re sending those first-four emails that used

to take a month, we’re sending those all now in the first week.

Initially to me with hesitation in testing was that we would be

really kind of annoying people with too much information. We

have actually found that our conversion rates have gone up

significantly. So I would encourage people to look at two or

three emails kind of tight in sequence from the first two or

three weeks and those patients and parents and clients who have

an interest do tend to convert higher when they get the

information they want much quicker.

Trent: In an email number one you’re thanking them and delivering the

content or report. In email two, three, and four, what are you

talking about?

Dustin: So it seems little silly, when we first tested this we thought,

should we just deliver more content so they have more and more

and more? What we found and you might be guilty of this, all

request a free report and get maybe a package and a DVD on some

something from a house for my business and I’ll set aside and I

might have not read it all the way, I might’ve looked at it and

glanced at it.

So the second email is reminding them why they requested the

information the first place. So it will be something along the

lines of, “Hey, I hope you got the free report that I sent. If

you’ve had a chance to look over it, you might have a question

or two and these are some the most popular questions we get

after new patients look at this reports. So we’re reminding them

first why they requested the free report it’s another chance,

it’s another excuse to stay in front of them and to give them

another email is we want to make sure if you any questions after

reading it.

And then we also, we break it down, we say, if you haven’t read it

yet, “Hey, we know life gets busy, let me go and summarize the

first main point,” and so that might be a little bit about how

much braces cost and why they cost what they do and how you

might be able to save for it, or how you might be able to sign

up for insurance and again solving problems for your client. If

they are about to purchase that product, what’s the first

problem they might encounter?

So for example, the real estate agent might say, “I’m just not sure

how to get my house on the market, I really want to sell my

house and I requested some information from this real estate

agent how I might list my house and I got the free packet, but I

haven’t taken the first step yet.” And so that that real estate

agent might remind that client potential lead, why they

requested the information the first place and then give them

kind of the first, almost like, it’s almost like you’re spoon

feeding them. You’re really kind of breaking up the free report

into bite-size pieces and that’s really worked well for us.

So we can track inside Infusionsoft, who clicks on what and when they

click on it, and for us, it’s actually the second email that

converts the highest. So the first email, it delivers what you

promised. The second email then reminds them why they requested

it and encourages them to take the next step.

So for your friend who was the real estate agent, could you imagine?

Our second email is the highest converting. What if we stopped

after the first email? We’d be losing the majority of our new

leads and new clients. So it’s a testament to follow-up. For us,

those next few emails are all about getting the patient or the

client to do the next step.

Trent: And our email number three and email number four is just a

version of what email number two is again.

Dustin: Exactly.

Trent: Reminding them and maybe summarizing some other points that you

haven’t talked about yet.

Dustin: The next point and then we’re delivering it in different media.

So if you look at our first email, the free report it’s usually

PDF. The second is the kind the first step in that report. The

third might push them into going to a video series. So maybe

they don’t want to read it, maybe they want to watch it and so

for us we have a site called, and those

are bite-size little webinars, two or three minutes in length

that talk about a particular question a patient or a parent

might have, and so we’ll push them to the video.

And then the final one really kind of gives them, so the final email

in that sequence is giving them what we call an Irresistible

Offer. And so for us or for your clients you might find, what

would be the final thing that might really get someone to call

in? You’re summarizing the first three emails you sent, because

frankly, some of them might not have read the first-three

emails. Don’t assume that everyone’s reading your content and so

we’re summarizing and then encouraging with the irresistible

offer to come in and schedule that first.

For us we do are selling face-to-face. We can’t sell braces over the

Internet, you have to actually come to my office and we have to

put them on your teeth. So it’s the final push to get them to

call. We use an irresistible offer to do that in the fourth


Trent: And what is that irresistible offer look like?

Dustin: For us it’s free whitening and so we always offer free exams

and consultations with one of our doctors. But we add on top of

that a free whitening offer, so they can get up to a $500

premium, and it’s free professional whitening and if you bought

that as a patient in our office, it actually does cost $500 so

we’re throwing that in for free if they call by a certain date

and time so there is a scarcity on how many of those we can do

per month and so that for us works very well.

Trent: And do they need to get braces to get the free whitening or can


Dustin: Exactly, so it’s a premium that goes with coming in and getting

braces, you’re exactly right.

Trent: Okay. So buy one thing, and over this limited time, I’m going

to give you this other highly valuable thing for free.

Dustin: Exactly. We’ve tested that, we have tested discounts, we’ve

tested what we call premiums or giveaways and for us the

premiums giveaways protect our price strategy, so we’re not

discounting our fees, but we do still convert a higher rate and

so for us you might test that, but for us premiums work better

than discounts and this is about the best offer we’ve been able

to together in multiple tests and that works pretty well.

Trent: So you’ve talked a lot about testing. So I’m going to maybe go

down another rabbit hole here. Let me proceed that with this

question, on your lead capture pages, so just so folks know

landing page basically has one thing to do, there’s no

navigation, I’m assuming at least in my mind there’s no

navigation. There is only thing there is to do is read the copy

and put your email address in or leave the page.

Dustin: Exactly.

Trent: What types of conversion rates, in other words what percentage

of the visitors that view those pages are giving you their

contact info?

Dustin: I’m going to back up this to just to segmenting the list,

because it depends on where they came from. So if these are

internal referrals, we push a lot of patience to landing pages

based on referral cards. So if you become a new patient in our

practice and let’s say, you get braces and then and you love the

experience so you refer a friend and you hand out a little

business card that on the back has a QR code that goes straight

to landing page that’s mobile-friendly. Those convert a lot

higher. So we’ll see 50% and 60% conversion on internal

referrals, which is amazing.

For cold leads coming from mommy blogs or Google ads will convert

anywhere from 5% to 10% of those that actually get into, in

other words eventually become new patients. I would say a high

convert. Once they visit the page, the number of people actually

giving us their email address is pretty significant, because

this isn’t like a get-rich in real estate program. This is like

people that are looking for braces, the kind of pretty, it’s a

pretty unique little niche.

So I don’t think most people wake up in the morning and go, “I wonder

how much braces costs and I just want to drive round town and

meet a bunch of orthodontist.” These are parents who are pretty

far along that process if not at least convinced that their kid

need some help. So our conversion on getting email addresses is

above 80% out of those landing pages. Getting patients, it

depends on where we’re segmenting and where those come from.

Trent: Yeah, and so the testing part of my question is do you use

split testing software?

Dustin: We do. So we’ll use split. There’s some that are built-in to

Infusionsoft and we use them, one of our vendors is ELaunchers

and they are a certified consultant. I’m trying to think of the

one if it’s AB split test but there’s a plug and you can use,

you can then randomly assign different headlines, randomly

assign different images and randomly assign different offers. So

for us, we usually test the headline, the image and the offer.

Now you can really get detailed and for businesses that do the

majority of their new patient or new client generation online, I

mean they are testing the color of the of the opt-in button,

they are testing the placement.

For us, we have tested, we use pictures in the background and if the

person in the picture has eyes looking towards the opt-in thing

or away from it that actually does drastically change your opt-

in rate, but most of this because we’re a little spoiled these

patients are somewhat interested in what we’re doing. It’s not

like a cold thing, like and say, “Make an extra thousand bucks

from home,” is not that type of an offer. The lead does mention


So I think we get a little spoiled in having higher conversion, but

certainly with direct mail, with all of our tests, minimum for

us is a 1,000 pieces and we’ll measures those results based on a

different tracking numbers, for Infusionsoft it’s super easy

because you can have different versions of the landing page.

Trent: Yeah.

Dustin: Yeah, I would test everything. You can always be your control

and sometimes you won’t, but it’s worth the test. Certainly in

landing pages, it doesn’t cost that much.

Trent: It is and if you’re not yet using Infusionsoft, there is tool,

and even if you’re using Infusionsoft, there’s the tool that I

use called Optimizely, You can, I think it’s…

I don’t know if you get a free account, but it’s 20 bucks a

month, it’s not expensive, and you do not need to understand how

to program any HTML. The interface is very, very easy to use,

and I was able to after I did an interview with Stephen Woesner,

if you come to and search for it.

I was able to double my conversion rate by taking into account some

of the things that I learned from him in that interview and then

using Optimizely, and now I’m a religious split tester. So I

would encourage that if you’re not split testing at something

you probably want to start.

All right, is there anything else before we leave the nurturing and

conversion part of our discussion Dustin, have I left anything

out that you think is particularly important and want to talk


Dustin: I think like you mentioned initially we could talk about it all

day, but a quick recommendation that we have used in the

nurturing is to really survey your clients before. If you’re

doing this, in other words, if you’ve never used Infusionsoft,

you’re not sure what type of content you need to put out there,

you could spend months or years building content that has no

relevance to your client or to your new patient or new customer.

And so, I would ask them, basically you could start with the top

questions you get and then you can also then just ask people in

your process of buying this widget or buying this servicer from

us, what was your biggest fear or frustration? And then will

talk to you about price and they’ll talk to you about being able

find some they can trust and you’ll get some ideas on what type

of content.

So in the nurturing process, make sure you’re nurturing with

something that they want and not something that you think they

need. You might think because you’re inside of your business day-

to-day, you might think there is something your patients or

clients or customers really need and they might have no interest

in it whatsoever. So we used a lot of surveys before we built

out our content and so our articles get really, really good

download rates and they get a lot of good pass-through rates and

that would be my one piece of advice on nurturing is to make

sure you’re giving them what they want.

Trent: Yeah absolutely, and I want to talk just very briefly about how

I do this in my own funnel. So as I mentioned off, we’re not

camera, but off air before we started. My audience has made up

of a lot of marketing agencies, local marketing consultants, and

business owners and those are kind of three very different

people, and they would be interested in different interviews and

in our various products and some of my products would be of a

lot of interest to some but not interest to the others. So if

you’re in that situation, you want to say, “Hey, buy this

thing,” to everybody because if only one-third of your audience

is going to be interested in whatever that thing is, the other

two-third is going to start to tune you out when you start

sending offers like that.

So what I do very, very early in my funnel and Infusionsoft is very,

very helpful of this because of this concept called tagging

where you can essentially categorize people and you can apply

these tags based upon links that are clicked. So anyone

listening to this knows this because they’ve been my funnel and

they’ll get an email on this “Hey. Tell me a little bit about

you, do you run a marketing agency? Or do you run a small

business? Or are you just getting started in business?

And when those tags get applied I can actually have-if you imagine my

funnel, like a three-lane highway or you can have as many lanes

as you like, I can send my traffic down, and it’s all automated.

I don’t actually have to do this; I just build the highway to

begin with. They go down the appropriate lane for them based

upon the links that they have clicked.

In other words, I let my list segment themselves within the confines

of the funnel that I’ve built and that helps with conversion

rates, it helps with engagement, it obviously it helps with

revenue. So there is a ton of things that you are going to

discover that you can do once you start to build marketing

funnels and take advantage of marketing automation.

Dustin: Yeah, everyone listening to this should have just heard

collectively minds exploding around the globe because that’s

what happens when people hear a statement like that, which is

your list can self-segment. And what people get inside of the

sequences, in other words, the content delivered to them changes

based on their interaction with the software.

This totally blows the minds of our coaching and consulting clients.

So in our industry for example if a patient requests information

on bleaching or tooth whitening and then downloads a free report

that talks about how to use and eventually purchases it, their

interaction with the software is totally different than someone

who got the email for the initial offering didn’t say yes. There

are getting totally different piece of information even though

they entered the sequence at the same time.

This really, really blows the minds of our of our small business

owners, which I think most dentists are small business owners.

This is so powerful. It’s almost like as a user or as a patient

or a client of your business, they open the email and go it’s

almost like, this was sent just for me. It’s customized and it’s

just incredibly powerful. So I would encourage everyone to do

not miss that point.

Trent: And that’s where the things like the AWebers and Mailchimps

send and what I will call the entry-level programs that they

didn’t do any of that stuff. AWeber, you can kind a sort of do

it, but it’s a really tricky to do and you got to have all these

different lists and you got to have them join one list and exist

the other list and it’s a royal pain in the backside.

The other thing that I wanted to add, if you’re marketing agency and

you’re thinking that you would like to use Infusionsoft, I have

built-one of the challenges for a new Infusionsoft user is when

will we get all the content, like all the emails and all the

stuff for marketing agencies. I have already built all of that

for you. I have designed, I have the webinar, I have all the

follow-ups, the funnel, the email, everything is completely

built for you, and I will give it to you for free if you decide

to become an Infusionsoft user.

Obviously, I’m Infusionsoft affiliate and if you use my link I get

paid for that. So that’s why I’m giving it to you for free, but

just an FYI. If you have questions about that please email me Okay. Want to move on to referrals, up

sells and repeat business. Can you tell us what are some of the

things, Dustin, that you’re doing to encourage referrals in your


Dustin: It’s driving our new patients and we used to rely solely on

referrals from general dentists and what we found with new

technology like Invisalign and Six-Month Smiles is that the

dentists really enjoy doing braces as well. So we have to

continually provide and push for the front our value as

specialists to our clients. And so what we’ve done then is

focused a lot on patients who have great experiences in our


So a lot of this is internal marketing, but just because we’re

talking internal marketing doesn’t mean you can’t turn

Infusionsoft on to it to automate it. And so for us, we really

looked at the number of patients who were coming from existing

clients and that number consistently hovered around 15% to 20%,

and I really wasn’t in the least bit satisfied with that and

I’ll tell you when we ask, so you might just right now think if

you’re a small business owner or a marketing consultant to small

business owners is what is your number, how many of your new

clients come from existing clients? And I’ll tell you that

question usually stumps most of our coaching and consulting

clients because they just don’t know.

So first of all, with Infusionsoft you’ll know because you can set

patients up as affiliates and you can tag them, you can see who

they’re referring. So in our industry a lot of our internal

marketing is driven through in-office contests, raffle prizes,

rewarding good behaviors. So for us, patients who show up on

time, kids who keep their teeth clean and don’t break the

braces, and then certainly patients and parents who refer their

friends and family, we enter them in a lot of raffles, and so we

give away a lot of prizes.

And you have to check how you can do this legally in your state. For

us it has to be random and so we give away random raffle prizes

and you can enter the contest even if you’re patient of ours but

it encourages patients to refer friends and family and we reward

those people and we track all that through Infusionsoft. So to

fast forward, our patient-to-patient referral or existing client

to existing client referral has gone from 15% to over 60%.

So the majority, in other words, the #1 referral source now on our

business is an existing client and if you run a business or even

remotely have interacted with the business you know the best new

customers are those who come from an existing satisfied customer

and so for us and there’s no better area of your business to

focus on then on turning internal referrals and just setting

those things on fire, just blow those through the roof and you

take every, and this is the takeaway point, you take every new

client acquisition, you cut the cost in half when they refer a

friend or family member.

So if you’re spending 200 bucks to 1,000 bucks to attract and

generate a new lead and that new lead refers a friend or family

member, you just cut the acquisition costs in half. So for us,

we put a lot of effort on this and Infusionsoft has built into

every sequence, new client new patient referral, referrals

generation, dentist, everyone that has a sequence in our office,

somewhere there is an invitation to invite a friend or family

member. It’s usually our business a coupon or a certificate for

a free new patient examine x-rays and sometimes depending on the

month and depending on our cycle we might offer premiums like

free iPod or free iPad or something exciting to get them to call

the office.

But Infusionsoft can track all that, the tag feature is tremendous.

We know in a split second, I can tell who’s referred, if they’ve

referred an adult or a child. That adult or child is an

Invisalign or in braces and you can custom tailor the message.

So for example, Trent, if you came to our office and got a

Invisalign, your follow-up sequence and inviting other people to

come experience our office would be tailored to what you’ve

experienced. So your referral postcard and your referral emails

and your referral letters would mention the benefits of

Invisalign because we’ve tracked a statistically, we know that

an adult Invisalign is probably not going to refer a 12-year-old

kid that’s in braces, but a 12-year-old kid in braces will

probably refer his friends who are also 12 year olds and need

braces. So Infusionsoft can do that. It’s so powerful and

referrals can just be taken to a new level, it’s really kind of


Trent: I want to give a shout out two people, one of them is relevant

to something you just said, Dustin, have you heard of Contest


Dustin: Yes.

Trent: You have. Okay. So Travis is a past guest and that is a

wonderful application for doing contests and it’s at and now that URL, I’m not an affiliate. I

don’t get paid anything to mention that. The other thing is

there is a podcast called I Love Marketing and it’s run by Joe

Polish and Dean Jackson and I’m a huge fan of their podcast and

so if you just check that on the iTunes store, I think you would

probably enjoy, I don’t mean just you Dustin, I mean the who are

listening to the show here today.

Dustin: Everyone can benefit from Joe Polish absolutely.

Trent: Absolutely, because if you’re in business, if you own your own

business, I believe before anything else, you are a marketer,

either that you’re poor.

Dustin: It’s a Zig Zigler line, “The poor salesman has skinny kids.”

Trent: Yeah.

Dustin: No, I think you’re absolutely right. This is about running a

successful business and if you believe in what you do you can’t

believe that’s worthy of hiding. You got to share with everyone

you can possibly share it with and if I’m on an airplane and you

sit next to me and you ask me what I do for a living? I usually

say I’m an entrepreneur and I teach other doctors how to market

their businesses and the more we talk that I’ll finally say I’m

a clinically trained orthodontist, but that’s just a very small

portion of what I do.

And if you don’t get serious about marketing, I can tell you the

world is changing and you’re going to be in basically the gig is

up right? If you think you’re going to just open a business and

wait for people to stumble across the threshold of your door or

stumble across your website without getting really serious about

marketing you’re really just kidding yourself. It’s not going to

be feasible; it hasn’t been in my opinion for years.

Professionals like mine are seeing historically. Orthodontist

did well with no marketing and we’re feeling the effects of

that. Since 2008, our industry is down 32% on average. In some

areas, up to 47%.

Trent: Wow.

Dustin: You’ve never seen dentist orthodontist go bankrupt; we’ve

actually seen that at record rates in areas like Arizona and Las

Vegas. So marketing should be your #1 focus on your business,

without a doubt you’re absolutely right.

Trent: Wow. That’s a huge decline. So very early in our show, you

talked about how Infusionsoft changed your life and marketing in

Infusionsoft so tightly correlated I think it’s a great segue.

Can you just, for the other entrepreneurs that are listening who

are maybe working too many hours and they have a spouse or kids

that don’t get to see them as much as they would like and

they’re just in that place where, “Man, I don’t feel like I can

work any less, because I’m just getting by, just getting the

bills paid.” What’s your life like now?

Dustin: It’s so drastically different. So I’ll fast-forward to the end

result, which I’m doing this podcast from home. My home office,

I got to the kids to school today and my three-year-old is still

at home, he’s not in school yet. So I get to have breakfast with

him and we were playing racetrack. We went out and had a daddy

date night last night. So we went and bought this cool little

racetrack with these cars, we were playing with that this


And so then I’ll get up and check some matrix on the practice. I’ll

check some things in Infusionsoft. I’ll check in with my team

leaders and site coordinators. We have three different offices

open today and today I will do some marketing, and I will see

patients later this week, but most of my job through the help of

Infusionsoft and really through the help of people like Joe

Polish and Dan Kennedy and people who have taught me to get

serious about marketing is that is that I get to really run a

business that operates on my terms.

And I would tell you I was in that place, it was in a dark and scary

place where I was working 16 to 18 hours a day not seeing my

wife and kids at all and feeling like the only way to get ahead

was to do more. To work, somehow work harder, even though I was

working six and seven days a week, and literally there were few

nights where I was at the office working on some marketing the

old-fashioned way, hammering it out, literally printing things

and stuffing envelopes and it was 2:00 or 3:00 morning I would

fall asleep, wake up in my shirt and tie, drive home, take a

shower and turn right back around to come back to the office.

So I’ve done, I’ve pulled all-nighters, and I’ll tell you there’s

nothing scarier than being in a position to own a business and

feeling like basically you’re an employee that can’t be fired.

In other words, you’ve got a job that can’t quit and I’ll tell

you, you got to think back to why you started your business in

the first place. You got to really write down your list of why

you’re doing this and for me it was to experience great things

with my family, to spend a lot of time with friends and to

travel and to help as many people as I could.

And there’s no way you’ll do that, if you’re the only person doing

everything in your business, you’ve got to get some help either

through delegation and for me Infusionsoft and so the

transformation has been night and day and you’ll hear the story

over and over again. My story is not unique. So to me

Infusionsoft didn’t just change the business, it changed my


Trent: Yeah, you mentioned metrics. So I’m going to do another rabbit

hole here for a minute. So for people who don’t use

Infusionsoft, they won’t know about this dashboard thing and

when you talk about metrics, are you talking about looking at

the Infusionsoft dashboard and all the custom reports.

Dustin: We have customized some of it inside of our business as well so

there exactly, but yeah.

Trent: Can you expand? Tell us a little bit about the dashboard with

some of your little box of widgets are, some of things you’re

tracking and then maybe we can go little further and you can

explain some of the custom stuff you’ve done.

Dustin: So inside of Infusionsoft, you can track, open rates, so how

many people are opening your emails, how many people are

clicking on things, how many people have opted in the web forms.

You get a pretty good picture day-to-day and hour-to-hour how

your online lead generation is working and then if you’re a

slower pace, if you’re using direct mail, we do a lot of offline

to online lead capture.

That means we mail you a postcard, it pushes you to a website which

is really a landing page like Trent mentioned, there is only one

thing you can do and that’s give me your email address. We’re

seeing how many of those patients are opening, how many of them

then are clicking and downloading. So we can get a good idea if

the email really stunk, a lot of you opted out, it looked too

spammy, so we want to change that pretty quickly. So inside of

the digital realm of like what we’re doing to capture leads

that’s one thing.

On a grander scale, we’re looking at acquisition costs. In other

words, how much are we spending per piece, so if spent a certain

amount money on a Google AdWords campaign that’s pushing to a

certain part of our website or maybe our new video series or

perhaps on a postcard, we want to know how much it cost for each

one of those patients to show up at our practice. So for us, we

track acquisition cost pretty severely. In other words, we

really, really monitor that. We’re always trying to get it to go

down. So some of you might consider this cost per lead or cost

per sale. You want to figure out, in other words, you’re going

to see differences based on the media. So based on the lead

peace, in other words, where these new clients are coming from.

So you don’t want to be too fast to disregard, in other words if you

know your numbers, you might say wow were spending $200 per new

client in this area, like Google AdWords but the postcards,

we’re getting them for $85. So we should cut out the $200 and we

should focus on the $85. You got to really look at our biggest

metric than this lifetime value per customer. So how much does

that customer spend, how much do they potentially refer and you

might realize pretty quickly that a higher cost per lead has a

customer or a client or new patient that spends a lot more money

with you.

And so you really have to know your numbers and I can’t stress this

enough, you should know daily. It should not be a mistake, it

shouldn’t be guesswork. Like I know potentially within $100

exactly what will generate today, and I know what we should

generate by noon and you can break it down by hour. So if you’re

not monitoring how many new patients or new clients come to you

per month, per week, per day, there’s no way you can set goals

to improve that.

And so inside of Infusionsoft you can track all the stuff. So some of

this, the cost per lead and in cost per sale, you’ll have to

monitor and adjust if you’re using additional media outside of

just email marketing and online advertising because you’ll have

to plug. In other words, Infusionsoft has to know how much you

spend on the direct mail piece, how much was the postage, how

much was the postcard, but you can do it.

You should be getting a daily report, even if you’re the only

employee, you should have a daily report that’s how many new

customers came in, where they came from, how much it cost to

acquire those, how much they spend or how much they could

potentially spend in a lifetime, have they referred people or

not, how much was produced, how much was collected and is there

bad debt outstanding. All that should come daily in report; you

can do that inside Infusionsoft.

Trent: So I want to dive a little deeper there. Let’s talk about, so

people come in and they become a patient and spend some money

with you, they’re are not checking out online and using

Infusionsoft shopping cart features. So how are you getting, you

just have staff that like do you have an API to your bookkeeping

system, do your staff manually, enter how much they spend, how

does that get there?

Dustin: Well, I tell you. We used to do the painful way and we built, I

say, we hired a brilliant team called Dentama to build a bridge

between our practice management software and Infusionsoft so

there is an API that daily then uploads all the data.

Appointment times, broken appointments, missed appointments,

whatever braces they are wearing, how much they owe us through

last payment, their date of last payment, all that information

goes back and forth between Infusionsoft and our practice

management software.

So most dentist have some sort of in my industry, a piece of software

that the stores and organizes x-rays and clinical notes. It

would store insurance information and then their contracts and

payment information. For me, ideally I’d build the whole thing

inside Infusionsoft and we’re kind of working on that, but for

now the two communicate with each other inside of API that was

built by a group of guys and it’s called Dentama.

And so that for us was a game changer because now we can then track

pretty easily inside Infusionsoft how much. If I want a list of

how many people have not bought whitening, I can quickly send an

email to just those people which is convenient enough and

increases are open rate.

But now think about direct mail, how much more efficient would it be

to only send postcards because then we’re talking hard cost.

Emails are essentially is free, you don’t pay for the service,

you can send emails all day long. Sending out direct mail to

15,000 or 20,000 people gets expensive pretty quickly. So we can

then inside Infusionsoft see if the lifetime customer value is

low for a group of people and we want to increase that we can

send specific targeted pieces to just those people. Usually for

us, it’s increasing referrals of friends and family.

So if there’s two kids in the family that have braces, we can about

30% of the time get mom or dad eventually to come inside to the

practice and get Invisalign. There are already there anyways,

they are waiting in the waiting room, you might and they

probably got quick at teeth. So for us, the upsales are

referring friends and family and then also selling additional

services, like whitening or like night guards or mouth guards

and things like that.

Trent: Okay. So all of that revenue data is now making its way into

Infusionsoft. So it’s very easy to calculate then the lifetime

value of a customer.

Dustin: Yes.

Trent: So let’s get back to the beginning, you talked about cost of

acquisition of a lead and you talked about Facebook advertising,

Google advertising, advertising on mommy blogs, direct mail, so

we’ve got spend that is occurring in a variety of different

medium, none of which are connected to Infusionsoft so how is

that data getting into Infusionsoft.

Dustin: You can link in, so you can build there is companies that have

APIs that connect with QuickBooks. So if you’re good if you have

an accountant keeps actual hard costs, we might actually tag

inside of QuickBooks. So for us, we use one vendor for all of

our print mail and then we’ll have a specific code for that


So I know like the April postcard went out April 1st, we’ve got the

amount we spent on that and we can have that actually through an

API with QuickBooks tag into that. So inside of our

Infusionsoft, we’re not just running email sequences, we’re

putting people into direct mail sequences, and for us that’s a

simplest exporting the list. So Infusionsoft, if people aren’t

familiar with Infusionsoft, it’s not that some magical computer

system in the sky that that connects to a fulfillment house and

prints out postcard. You can do that, but for us we’ve got one

vendor that prints all of our hardcopy sales letters and

postcards and we tag into that, how much that costs we can track

and as those patients come out, you have to tag them, there is

some actual human effort here.

So when a phone operator in our business takes a phone call,

hopefully they use the call tracking number that’s on the

postcards. So for us there’s a whisper feature and the whisper

feature right before you answer the phone says April postcard

and so that that staff member on the phone knows that this new

client is calling probably with a postcard in front of them and

that phone number is only published on that postcard; we don’t

publish that phone number anywhere else. So that staff has to

tag that patient as being referred from that postcard and that’s

how we track that this me patients came from this piece and this

is how much we spent and this is our average acquisition cost

for that group.

Now as you go through the lifecycle of a customer, the long lifetime

customer value increases. So we can only base it initially on an

average when they start the contract, but we know historically

those numbers go up anywhere from 10% to 15% of what patients

initially signed to spend we can usually bump that in our

business by 10% or 15% as an average conglomerate into the

referral or through purchasing additional products and services.

Trent: And are you using QuickBooks online?

Dustin: We are. So there’s an actual…

Trent: Okay.

Dustin: There is a service, I don’t know if it’s just in our area

through your CPA, but it’s called and has an

online version of QuickBooks that actually works pretty well

with this.

Trent: Okay. So was there anything custom to get QuickBooks talking to

Infusionsoft or did you just use the service from

Dustin: No, there isn’t, so ELauncher is the company, they’re an

Infusionsoft certified consultant who’s helped with that. So

anything, I can go to a certain extent and understanding a lot

of this, but when we start talking about programming APIs, I

just hire some people who know how to do that.

Trent: Yeah.

Dustin: That’s when I used it, I get to use the excuse, “Well, I’m just

a dentist.”

Trent: I don’t know how to program APIs either and I don’t want to

know how to program APIs because you just don’t need to know all

that kind of stuff, very easy to find people to do it. Okay. I

think I want to a wrap up with a lightning round because we’ve

been we’re closing in on an hour and I promised that would be an

hour. So I want to stick to the schedule.

So Dustin, last three questions what are you most excited about for


Dustin: I am most excited about expansion in our business. We got the

opportunity to take, now that we know are marketing systems

work, and they can be automated with Infusionsoft, we have the

ability to buy existing practices, and we’ve done this. So we’ve

grown from one location to four and we’re taking practices that

have a healthy patient base, but historically have done no

marketing and we’re taking small orthodontic offices that do 10

to 15 new patients a month and we’re bumping them within a few

months in 50 or 60. So for us it’ll be at a growth regionally

within our area to add new locations.

Trent: You are going to end up being a very wealthy man, my friend.

That’s a heck of a system, you’re buying businesses that have

patients that don’t understand how to market and you’re paying

whatever X of earnings as a multiple and you’re immediately

within three months able to bump up earning significantly and

roll all that up that. That’s a heck of a finance and leverage


Dustin: Yeah.

Trent: Favorite business book.

Dustin: My favorite business book, oh my gosh, I’m looking at the

library like 400 of them. Anything by Dan Kennedy, anything by

Robert Ringer the probably number one, favorite business book of

all time would be Napoleon Hill’s, “Think and Grow Rich.”

Trent: Yeah, that’s a good one. Robert Ringer, never heard of him

before. Which one did he write?

Dustin: So he’s the guy back in the 70s, he changed it to be a little

less threatening but it was like “Looking out for #1” and

“Winning Through Intimidation” and then he’s changed it now to a

little less intimidating titles like one is called “Action:

Nothing Happens Until Something Moves.” That’s brilliant brand

strategy and that he did a lot real estate and really bright

guy, but a lot of his stuff is back in the 70s, but Robert


Trent: Okay. And in the off chance that we have, another orthodontist

listening to this episode are thinking, “Hey man, I want to get

in touch with Dustin.

Dustin: They can find me at that’s where we have

coaching and consulting services available to orthodontists and

dentist as well.

Trent: Okay. All right, my friend. Thank you so

much for doing this interview with me I thoroughly enjoyed it

and I hope that the listeners got just a truck load of good

ideas out of it. If you did and you have questions for Dustin

here in just a few minutes, I’m going to announce how you can

get to this episode, I can’t do it live during the interview

because I don’t know what that URL is yet, but I do in post

production. So you’ll be able to get everything you need and if

you have questions you’ll be able to put them in the post and I

would imagine that Dustin would probably keep an eye on that for

a day or two after it goes live. And if there are questions here

I will answer those. So Dustin, thank you so much for making

some time.

Dustin: Trent it’s always a pleasure. Thank you.

Trent: You’re very welcome. Take care.

Dustin: Thank you.

Trent: All right, to get the show notes for today’s episode, head over

to When you’re there you’ll see all the links

that we’ve mentioned during this episode plus some other very

valuable information that you can use to ignite more growth in

your business.

If you’re listening to this on your mobile phone, go ahead and

text right now. Text the word “Trent” to 585858 and when you do

I’m going to give you access to the massive traffic toolbox

which is a compilation of all of the very best traffic

generation strategies that have been shared with me by my many

proven experts that have been guests here on the show. As well,

you’re also going to be able to get access to a list of what I

feel are the very best interviews that I’ve thus far published

here on Bright Ideas and also you’re going to get notified of

the webinar that I mentioned at the beginning of this episode.

And finally, if you really enjoyed this episode, please write

over to where you will find a link to leave

us a rating in the iTunes, I really appreciate it if you would

take a moment and do that. That’s it for this episode, I’m your

host Trent Dyrsmid and I look forward to seeing you in the next

episode. Take care and have a wonderful day.

Recording: Thanks very much for listening to the Bright Ideas Podcasts.

Check us out on the Web at

About Dustin Burleson

dustin-burlesonDr. Dustin Burleson is a speaker, teacher, author and orthodontic specialist. He is an Assistant Clinical Professor at the University of Missouri ­ Kansas City School of Dentistry, the Attending Orthodontist at the Children’s Mercy Hospital and Director of the Leo H. Rheam Foundation for Cleft and Craniofacial Orthodontics.

Best-selling author of “Stop Hiding Your Smile! A Parent’s Guide to Confidently Choosing an Orthodontist” and “The Consumer’s Guide to Invisalign,” Dr. Burleson mentors not only patients and their parents but also orthodontic specialists from all over North America. In his private coaching groups, Dr. Burleson lectures and teaches his orthodontic peers how to create patient-­centered practices focused on changing lives and supporting the community. Through his efforts, hundreds of orthodontists across the nation have committed to providing orthodontic care to children who desperately need but cannot afford orthodontic treatment.
Dr. Burleson is the nation’s largest provider of free orthodontic treatment to children in need and is the president and founder of Burleson Orthodontics & Pediatric Dentistry, a large multi­doctor, multi­clinic specialty practice in Kansas City, Missouri where he resides with his wife and three children.