Race For 20K Agency Challenge

Mineral Update for September 19th

Race For 20K Agency Challenge drip campaign

Hi Bright Ideas readers, Drew again from As a refresher, I run an agency — — that is competing with Groove in a race for recurring revenue. My agency focuses on delivering services to ecommerce retailers.

I want to share some updates on what we’ve been working on, as well as some open questions I’ve been pondering lately.

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data driven marketing strategy

Pedal to the Metal: 5 Effective Ways to Boost Your Data-Driven Marketing Efforts

data driven marketing strategy

We’ve all heard the phrase, “Numbers don’t lie.” You could have great engagement with your social networks’ followers, but at the end of the day, small talk doesn’t usually do too much for your ROI.

In order to improve brand awareness, drive clicks, and increase conversions, businesses need to implement several steps into their data-driven marketing strategy, as well as strategically utilize data to maximize their revenue, and ultimately, their profit.

Set The Right Goals for Success

According to the 4th Annual Staples National Small Business survey, more than 80% of the 300 small business owners surveyed claimed that they do not keep a record of their business goals.

Every business owner, regardless of where they are in the business cycle of life, must have goals in place in order to continue moving forward, as well as maintain the success of that business. While goal setting itself can help a business look at the big picture, it’s also important to make sure that you’re setting the right goals to achieve that big-picture success.

You might want to set expectations lower and then over deliver rather than set them too high and underdeliver. Your sales team will be more likely to hit their goal since the pressure is lower. They may even exceed their goals if you incentivize them to do so, via commissions or bonuses.

It will also be a victory for your public relations team because exceeding your targets is good news, and customers love good news and it is a sign that your company is a strong performer.

Every department in your business should take part in determining what these goals are so that there is input from as many angles as possible, so include them in the meetings that involve the data and how you will use it in your marketing campaign(s).

data driven marketing graphs

Cut The Data Fat

data driven marketingInformation bombards us on a daily basis both at work and outside of work—it can be a bit overwhelming sometimes, especially at work when one has to be a very competent multitasker. Although you should collect all relevant data to the task at hand, you should really focus on key data that will drive your marketing and sales efforts—the data that will produce actual results.

Some data that will produce results include the number of units sold and revenue. In addition, one should also take the average of those numbers. If you expect to sell 1 million units a year at a revenue of $1 million, for example, it averages to 83,333.33 units a month at $83,333.33, so it also helps with the first step: to set short-term goals, as well as long-term ones.

What numbers you should focus on will depend on the nature of your business—a retailer should especially focus on averages since the numbers are skewed at certain times of the year. Certain holidays throughout different times of the year tend to have different numbers as things are often on sale during special occasions.

Understand Customer Engagement and Behavior

While it can be difficult to make your customers feel a connection between them and your business, it’s important to remember that customers really love it when businesses can relate to them and their needs, situations, and lifestyles. Understanding customers’ purchasing habits will not only endear you to those customers, but attract new ones as well through word of mouth and having a positive experience with your business. That is why you need to understand and engage your customers as much as possible when collecting your data.

Although you may have the numbers, and your business can understand them, not all customers will understand the data in the same way that your business does. Businesses need to share their results clearly, making it easy for customers to understand why your products and services are something they should buy. If you convey these ideas in a clear and concise manner to your customers, they will keep coming back for more.

Use Data Visualization To Facilitate Discovery

For many, a spreadsheet of collected data just looks like numbers, with no clear picture as to what these numbers mean. Most people want to visualize how these numbers work. Creating charts and graphs can help make your collected data easier to understand to those who aren’t crunching the numbers.

If you see that your marketing efforts are leading towards higher sales at a certain time of year and that it is consistent over time, look for a time in the chart or graph where sales are a bit lower and research ways on how to improve sales during those time periods so that you can have a more consistent stream of revenue throughout the year.

Explore the Unknown

Analyzing data is an extremely important aspect of the marketing process. Exploring the unknown is a very daunting task, but when your team comes together to analyze data, it can yield great results for your business and attract more customers to buy your products and services.

Are there other overlooked ways to boost your data-driven marketing? Feel free to leave your thoughts below!

Hilary SmithHilary Smith is an online business writer with experience in media marketing and business communications. In addition to discussing the importance of data analysis in marketing, her writing also also covers social media strategies, entrepreneurship, and business communications technology.



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Race for 20K

Mineral Weekly Update for August 8th

Race For 20K Agency Challenge August 8 ab split testingHi Bright Ideas readers, my name is Drew, I blog at, and I run an agency — — that is competing with Trent’s Groove agency in the Race to $20K in recurring revenue.

So July was a “zero” month for Mineral: we started the month at $7K recurring, and we ended the month at $7K recurring.

The big reason for this was it’s the summer!

Every summer my family and I hit the beach every Friday – Monday, which typically leaves me only three days in the office. And during those working days I do a fair amount of consulting outside of Mineral, so Mineral definitely took a backseat.

Mineral did, however, relaunch our landing page over the past week. The new one is up at — as you can see it’s a bit of a “long form sales letter”. At the top, you’ll see a lot of empathetic writing meant to draw the reader in. This is followed by a more-or-less clear articulation of our solution, and at the very bottom, is a pricing table.

We also have a “B” version of the page that is more visual and less copy intensive, so I’ll be sure to work that in for some nice AB split testing.  We also are preparing a short autoresponder course to integrate with both pages to improve lead conversions.

The persona we are targeting with the page is the Shopify store owner. We went pretty narrow here because 1) they represent some of the better clients in our current concierge MVP, and 2) I plan on blogging for Shopify over the next month. Hence the focus.

Our plan is to have Shopify store owners read through the page, click through the pricing table, and hit a Recurly checkout. $20K in recurring revenue will result (again, according to plan).

Will it all work? We’ll find out soon — next week we will start driving some traffic to the page, and I’m holding a short webinar for Shopify store owners.  With any luck I’ll have more income to report by next update.

Hey, thanks for the info. Now what?

If you need any help with content creation, we have tons of free resources to get you over the hump. Please subscribe to this blog to ensure that you never miss an article.

Have questions or comments? Please contact me.

If you really enjoyed this post, please help us to spread the word by clicking one of the social media sharing buttons.

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Race For 20K Agency Challenge July 18

Mineral Weekly Update for July 18th

Race For 20K Agency Challenge July 18 process improvement

Hi Bright Ideas readers, my name is Drew, I blog at, and I run an agency — — that is competing with Trent’s Groove agency in the Race to $20K in recurring revenue.

Update for July 11

As we used to say in the Navy, NSTR (Nothing Significant To Report) this week for my half of the Agency Challenge. I’ve been taking the week off spending time with the family on the beach. I get back to work Monday — so next week’s update should be filled with a fair amount of new material.

Update for July 18

This week at, we continued to focus internally on our concierge MVP.  I think we’ve finally got it dialed in enough so that next week we can turn to marketing.

I’ll follow Trent’s lead and give you a quick overview before diving into each item:

  1. Process improvement
  2. Implemented Teamwork
  3. Recruited three more paid search contractors
  4. Rewrote our landing page to make more Shopify specific
  5. Spoke to several writers

Process improvement


Why do I keep harping on process improvement? Because as I stated in a previous update, in order to effectively serve lower-end clients at scale, we need to have our processes dialed.  There simply isn’t much wiggle room for improvisation when a client is paying us $500/month.

A little extra time to configure something or take a client call and we’ve blown through our margin for the month. So this week we spent Monday and Tuesday in an all-day session to review our processes.

When we began our agency, we were very improvisational. I basically brought on a bunch of paid search specialists who I had used before, and I assigned each one a client.  Then each specialist was off to the races — doing whatever they needed to do for that particular client.

In those early days, we had no central repository of knowledge, and no common approach to how we managed paid search. If a client wanted growth, one of our contractors might approach it by expanding ad groups and keywords — another would approach it by increasing bids.

After a couple months of running the agency this way, we realized that this improvisational wouldn’t cut the mustard at scale. First, we needed to deliver a similar experience across account optimization, bidding, channel management, etc.  Second, that experience had to be best-of-breed and include ‘best practices’ from the world of paid search.

So I spent about a month interviewing our contractors and other paid search experts to come up with our baseline standard approach.  That approach involves checklists for onboarding, maintenance, and reporting that we execute on a regular basis (weekly, monthly, quarterly, or annually). Monday and Tuesday of this week we further refined the lists getting them into our project management software and assigning specific contractors to each list.

Now when we take on a new client we can say that they will indeed receive ‘best practice’ paid search management.

Implemented Teamwork

Up until this week, we had been running our nine-client MVP on Trello.  But Trello was bursting at the seams — it really was built more for brainstorming and simple task management, not for delivering a consistent set of service processes to 20, 30, 100 clients.

After testing out everything from Jira to Maventools, we opted for Teamwork. It has most of the functionality we desired: the ability to set recurring tasks, the ability to monitor the hours worked by our army of contractors, and the ability to run reports quickly on what is due and when.

We spent a few days moving all our tasks into Teamwork and on Wednesday moved all our contractors over to it.  Two and a half days in it seems to be doing OK — every one of our contractors (we have around ten) get tasks assigned to them regularly, and they can report back on what they are seeing on the client level.

Of course, these systems never live up to their billing, but for now we feel a lot more confident that we are getting work done on time for each client.

Recruited three more paid search contractors

We currently work with about four ‘expert’ paid search contractors and about another three ‘novice’ ones.  The novices — who have a lower hourly rate — perform a lot of the onboarding and routine maintenance tasks while the ‘experts’ set strategy and direction.

I need a deeper bench. By my back-of-the envelope calculations, in order for us to beat Trent and pass $20K in recurring revenue, we will need to service 20-30 clients.  Right now we are at nine.  So we need more staff to service more clients.  Plus there’s also the reduced risk that comes with having several people able to execute the same tasks — our agency won’t grind to a halt if someone gets sick or goes on vacation.

So this week we added three more contractors into our system for limited duration tests.  Each will take on some client work and give us daily feedback on what they did so that we can assess their progress and determine whether they are a good fit.

Rewrote our landing page to make more Shopify specific

Our current paid search landing page is dated. First, it’s a bit generic. Based on what we’ve learned from our concierge MVP, our new ideal customer is a Shopify store owner (easier to market to, easier to service), and the current page targets just any ecommerce store owner.  Second, the pricing is off — we’ve moved that around.  And third, the services are off — we’ve changed up what customers receive when they sign up, primarily removing a regular phone call and replacing that with enhanced reporting.

So this Thursday I put on my copywriter cap and drafted a new landing page that features the new service and pricing.  I really took an empathetic approach with the page in an effort to get inside the head of the average small business Shopify store owner.

I like the results, but it does look much more like a long form sales letter than the current minimal design.  Is this good or bad?  I’ve no idea, but I think I want to launch with it to see what happens.  Shortly after launching, I will develop a “B” page that is more like the current page for testing.

Our goal was to get the page up Friday, but we ran into an unanticipated development challenge with our pricing table that forced us to roll it until next week sometime.  So stay tuned.

Spoke to several writers

With the new landing page ready and company processes dialed in, it’s time to turn to marketing!

This is the moment I know I’ve been waiting for, the time to finally try to scale up a bit so that Trent can feel the heat.  Next week I plan to kick off our initial marketing efforts, so I’ll save an overview of what we are doing for that update.  But content marketing will be part of it, and as such I need to find a decent writer (and no I can’t afford Trent’s services yet).  This past week I interviewed a few.

That’s all this week. My family and I continue to hit the beach every weekend (Friday – Monday, specifically) which always makes it a challenge to execute on the work front during the week.  I often think back to my single days when I lived in SF’s Mission District — it seemed much easier to launch my previous business when I was working 24-7!  That said I’m not complaining because I love my family time, and swimming in the surf really helps me chill out.

So until next week —

Hey, thanks for the info. Now what?

If you need any help with content creation, we have tons of free resources to get you over the hump. Please subscribe to this blog to ensure that you never miss an article.

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Race For 20K Agency Challenge July 4

Mineral Weekly Update for July 4

Race For 20K Agency Challenge July 4 operations automation

Hello readers!

I hope everybody enjoyed their long weekend here in the States. By way of background, my name is Drew and I am building a recurring revenue paid search agency at with two goals: 1) reinventing paid search for online retailers, and 2) beating Groove Digital Marketing on the Quest for $20K so that I can receive the grand prize, a large bag of Idaho potatoes.

Weekly Update

As for my weekly update, this was a short week, and we continue to focus most of our efforts on our internal processes as opposed to on attracting new clients. I realize this is a marketing automation blog, but before I can get to marketing I need to focus my agency on operations automation. This is vital because 1) we have chosen a lower average price point of $500 – $1000/month that 2) requires that we develop scalable client service processes.

Operations Automation

With nine clients in our concierge MVP, we have chosen to hit the pause button on customer acquisition for a few weeks — we want to see what we can do to serve them all better with fewer human hours.

When looking at our business, we see it as broken down into five process areas. I’ll walk through each below:

  1. Client onboarding. This is the process we use to integrate a client into our workflow. It’s proven to be a massive time-sink for us because of all the account information we need: Google Adwords logins and access, Analytics access, Google Merchant Center (for Shopping feeds), Facebook logins, shopping cart access (so we can generate shopping feeds), etc. There’s a lot of back-and-forth with the client, a ton of education, and if we hit a roadblock — a shopping cart we’ve never worked on before, for example — onboarding could stretch out to a month’s worth of time. Although onboarding is a beast, I believe it’s a major reason why these clients aren’t taking on paid search in house, so it’s important for us to develop a standard approach here.
  2. Paid search maintenance. This is the meat of what we do — manage and optimize client paid search programs. We had been doing it for a while with an army of great paid search contractors, but we quickly realized that each contractor had his or her own approach: how often they would check a budget, update bids, create A/B ad copy, and so on. It’s important for us to check all the boxes for all the clients, so we need strong checklists here for our team.
  3. Reporting. These are the processes around letting the client know how we are doing. One one level, it’s about demonstrating to the client a return on their ad spend (ROAS). But on a deeper level it’s also about justifying our existence, showing them what we are working on behind the scenes week to week. We want to keep the client from asking the question: “So what am I paying these guys for again?”
  4. Client feedback. This is an important process that should separate us from the massive pack of paid search agencies in the long run: collecting and acting on client feedback. Not enough agencies do it, and we want to do it well.  I have confidence that if we do, in a year our business will look very different than I could possibly imagine today and we will have carved out a real competitive advantage.
  5. customer serviceClient customer service.  This final process is one I know well from my days running customer service at my online retailer. It’s such a pain point (for customers and for businesses) and can really rack up the costs if we don’t handle it well. At the same time, our concierge MVP is telling us that this process is critical to a client’s sense of satisfaction (often more so than ROAS), so we have to nail service.

Given these five core processes, what did we focus on this week?  To some extent each one:

1) Implemented a new project management system. We are currently on our third, Teamwork, and we hope this one sticks. Given all the process areas above, we had a strong need to create recurring tasks that we could assign out to a subcontractor and regenerate with each new client.

  • Onboarding steps.
  • Adwords negative keyword management steps.
  • Bidding checks.

It took us about two weeks of playing with Teamwork before we made the switch for the entire team. I’m even hoping to begin syncing this with our contractor invoicing as it should make the internal profitability analysis much easier.

2) Created the draft “paid search maintenance” process. This was a big, necessary step as alluded to above. I spent hours this week on the phone with our top PPC contractors collecting their paid search best practices, and I broke them into regular task checklists by time period (daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, etc.). We then took these checklists and added them into Teamwork so that they would generate automatically for each client. Now each client is receiving standardized (awesome) paid search management — bids are updated on schedule, ROAS is checked regularly, etc. Given this approach I’m pretty sure our client ceiling just moved from about 20 to about 80-100.

3) Investigated reporting options. Given our new processes, we decided the next logical step was to tell our clients about what we are doing and why we are doing it. We suspect exporting data from Teamwork, massaging it, and delivering it to the client is the way to go. That way the client will get a regular update (daily, weekly, not sure yet) on what we did and why we did it. I spent a fair amount of time this week figuring out how to get data from Teamwork into one of several client messaging systems.

4) Client calls and feedback. Finally, I was on the phone with many of our clients this week in an effort to collect more feedback on what they want. As anyone who has ever done customer development knows, it’s a slow painstaking process but a necessary one. My heart sinks when I look at my calendar and see back-to-back-to-back client calls every afternoon, especially when we aren’t really making any money (yet), but I do always come away with some key insights.  And I did this week.

So that wraps up our short week. My family and I are off to the Hamptons for a week. I’m guessing that for readers outside of NYC that conjures up images of, I don’t know, Paris Hilton and insane exclusive parties on the beach. Nothing could be further from our beach experience — we do a lot of grilling, connecting with friends, and swimming.  Although I love it, I am beginning to have that super-excited “startup feeling” about Mineral and kinda wish I could spend a few weeks solid just moving the ball forward.  The next week will be a bit of an operational challenge to me to see what I can get done without being in the office.

Happy Fourth,


Hey, thanks for the info. Now what?

If you need any help with content creation, we have tons of free resources to get you over the hump. Please subscribe to this blog to ensure that you never miss an article.

Have questions or comments? Please contact me.

If you really enjoyed this post, please help us to spread the word by clicking one of the social media sharing buttons.

Thanks so much!

[xyz-ihs snippet=”BuildGroove”]


Race For 20K Agency Challenge - Mineral Digital Marketing Agency Intro

Mineral Digital Marketing Agency: An Intro


Mineral Digital Marketing Agency Intro

Hello readers!

My name is Drew, and I am Trent’s competition in the “Race for $20K” agency challenge.  I thought I’d focus this week’s update — my first — on who I am and what I am trying to do. That way you all will know who the guy is who is kicking Trent’s ass all over western Idaho after beating him over the head with a sack of potatoes.

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graig presti FC

How to Use the Phone to Dramatically Boost Your Marketing Campaign ROI with Graig Presti


Graig Presti is founder and CEO of the agency, This is Graig and I’s third interview and this time we are talking about something that nobody in the marketing world is talking about … leaving a bunch of money on the table.

What is this missing element? How and when to inject use of the telephone into your marketing and sales sequence. We will talk in detail:

  • When should you call
  • Who should you call
  • Why should you call them
  • What should you say in the first 10 seconds of the call.

We are NOT talking about cold calls.

For higher price point items, there comes a point in life-cycle of a lead when they need to talk to you. When you call your warm leads, there is a very specific way to handle the conversation.  If you don’t have a process you will probably have a high failure rate and kill many great leads.

Looking for warm calling tips, including exactly what to say? This is the episode for you.

Listen now and you’ll hear Graig and I talk about:

(01:00)  Introduction
(09:00)  How does the phone play a role in marketing?
(17:00)  How should your structure a call with a prospect you’ve not talked to before?
(21:00)  How do you ask “trick questions” that make you look like an expert?
(25:00)  Overview of Trent’s first call with a prospect
(32:00)  How do you pre-qualify a prospect prior to making a call?
(34:00)  How can a survey play a role.?
(42:00)  How does silence play a role in closing?
(44:00)  How do you recruit salespeople?

Resources Mentioned

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Graig Presti 

GraigPrestiGraig Presti, founder and CEO of, is a foremost advertising authority who operates with dental practices all around the planet, assisting them to leverage the internet so they can generate more telephone calls, reach more new patients, and bring in more revenue. His strategies begin to work immediately and continue to work month after month.

Presti specializes in helping dental practices dominate their nearby location by using confirmed regional Internet dental advertising strategies to help them dominate the top rated regional research engines like Google, Yahoo and Bing.

Presti uses easy to understand stories to help his clients comprehend how they can improve their internet presence. He is a repeated featured speaker at dental conferences and other venues.

Presti has mastered the art of bringing a flood of new patients into dental offices, and has undoubtedly established himself as a top specialist in his field. His considerable accomplishments, and his industry contributions, led him to be showcased as a Newsweek Magazine Champion of Health, Wealth and Success.




How to Build a 7 Figure Virtual Inbound Agency with Rachel Cogar

Rachel Cogar is the CEO of Puma Creative, a 7-figure boutique inbound marketing agency and an evangelist for inbound marketing methodology. In addition to running her business, Rachel juggles Mom duties with three children, including a 6-week-old newborn.

Puma Creative is a 100% virtual agency with a team of 13 people all around the world. They focus on small to mid-size businesses around the world that believe in the power of inbound marketing. Their clients are all on retainers of $4000 – $10,000 per month.

Would you like your business to look like that? When you listen to this episode, you will learn exactly how she did it.

Listen now and you’ll hear Rachel and I talk about:

  • (04:45) Introduction
  • (05:30) What types of customers do you most often attract?
  • (08:30) What size retainer do you charge?
  • (10:30) What research do you rely on?
  • (11:40) Which Healthcare sub-niches do are you having success with?
  • (14:30) How did you get traction in healthcare?
  • (19:00) How are you using LinkedIn in your marketing sales?
  • (21:40) Please explain your process to qualify a lead.
  • (25:00) Do you pass your qualified leads to another application?
  • (28:00) How do I automate the sales process?
  • (35:00) Please explain some of your internal procedures & processes.
  • (48:00) Please tell us about your ROWE(Results Only Work Environment).
  • (54:00) What advice would you give to people looking to build a virtual team?

Resources Mentioned

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:


Trent: Hey there, bright idea hunters. Welcome back to Episode #140 of the Bright Ideas Podcast. I am your host, Trent Dyrsmid, and this is the podcast where we help entrepreneurs discover ways to use digital marketing and marketing automation to dramatically increase the growth of their business.

If you’re an entrepreneur looking for proven tactics and strategies to help you increase traffic, conversions, profits,and ultimately attract more customers of course, well guess what, my friends, you are in the right place. This is exactly what we do on this podcast. The way that we do that is I bring on other entrepreneurs who are walking their talk and getting results and then I get them to share with you and me, exactly what it is they’re doing to achieve all the success that they have, and this episode is exactly that.

In this episode, my guest is a woman by the name of Rachel Cogar. Rachel is the owner of an agency, a seven-figure agency, called Puma Creative. She’s also the mother of three with a brand new newborn just six weeks old at the time of this recording, and she, much like myself, is an absolute evangelist for the inbound marketing methodology. Her agency, by the way, is also 100% virtual. She works out of her house and has a team of 13 people spread all around the world and they are serving clients all around the world, and these clients are paying retainers of anywhere from $4,000 to about $10,000 or $12,000 per month.

Just imagine the lifestyle that she has with a business like that. Would you like to have that kind of life? Would you like your business to look like that? When you listen to this episode, you’re going to hear exactly how she did it.

We’re going to talk about the types of customers that she deals with. We’re going to talk about how she creates content and, most importantly, how she’s using LinkedIn to place that content in front of the exact target customer that she wants to have. Then we’re going to talk about the inbound methodology and how her funnel is built, and how she takes leads from being information qualified through to being marketing qualified, and then ultimately sales qualified. We share some ideas back and forth on how automation plays a role in that, both on the marketing and on the sales side.

If you’re using HubSpot now, but you don’t have a CRM system in place to handle a lead once they become sales qualified, you’re going to get some really valuable, golden nuggets on exactly how to do that.

We talked a lot about how she’s using data to support the claims that she’s making to her prospective clients. We name specifically from HubSpot that she’s using to get that data. Man, oh, man. There is just so much good stuff in this.

Then at the very end we talked about what many people call a results-only work environment. We talk about building a virtual and we talk about how we manage that team and some of the tools that we use. It’s that process that allows her and I to run these businesses where we can literally be anywhere in the world that we want to, so long as we have an internet connection, and it’s just business as usual when we’re doing it.

That’s it. No fluff, no puffery, just real stuff and in this episode you are going to get a ton of it. So in just a moment we’re going to welcome Rachel to the show.

Before we do that, my very quick announcement as always is I get a lot of emails from people saying, “Trent, what are the tools that you use to run your business? How do I create landing pages? What should I use for video hosting? Where should I host my WordPress site? What themes should I use? What should I use for email marketing? What should I use for marketing automation? How should I do content marketing?” and on and on it goes.

I have a list of all of the tools that I use. Some of those links on that list are affiliate links which means that if you click them and you buy the other people’s stuff, they’ll send me a little commission for promoting it.

Now as a thank you to for doing that, if you go to, you will see a list of all the tools and my recommendations for them that I use in my business. If you do choose to use any of those affiliate links to buy lead pages or whatever it is that you want to buy, then you send me your receipt afterwards and I have some free stuff for you, my paid products. I will give you a couple of choices on things that you can get for free and that’s just my way of saying thank you for using my affiliate link.

With that said, please join me in welcoming Rachel to the show. Hey, Rachel. Welcome to the show.

Rachel: Hey, Trent. Thanks for having me today.

Trent: No problem. It’s my pleasure to have you on and come and share with my audience the story of how you have built and are building your agency. I’m really keen to get into all the nitty- gritty of all the things that you’ve done to get the results that you’ve got. But so far I think we need to start off with allowing you to introduce yourself so that the audience knows who they’re listening to. We’ll talk about what some of those results are very early on and then, as I mentioned, we’ll get into the nuts and bolt of how you achieved them.

With that said, please take a moment and introduce yourself. Who are you and what do you do?

Rachel: Well, I am Rachel Cogar. I am the CEO of Puma Creative. We are an inbound marketing consultancy, a boutique agency and we help small- to medium-sized businesses across the globe to get their business and their marketing strategies optimized so that they are following best practice, and really just optimizing the processes of their business in order to grow their business, enlighten their clients, and to continue to expand into their marketplaces.

Trent: So when you say small businesses, can you narrow that down for us a little bit? Is there any particular size or niche or some kind of focus that you’ve chosen to target?

Rachel: That’s an interesting question. We’ve actually tried the informal inbound marketing strategy with various businesses in various industries and verticals and various sizes. What I have found that I enjoy most is we enjoy working with companies that have five or six people that they can dedicate to the marketing effort. We enjoy working with people that understand inbound marketing as a belief system, as a philosophy, as a way of life, I guess, as opposed to that it’s just another arrow in the bag of marketing tricks.

As far as verticals and industries, we’ve worked a lot with healthcare, healthcare consulting, IT technology, and we’ve seen some really great results for those industries. Just recently, I guess a year ago, we brought on our first e-commerce retail client and it’s a completely different ballgame than the business-to-business marketing and the healthcare consulting or technology world. We’re learning those ropes. We’re learning how to apply the principles of inbound marketing to e-commerce and retail and the sales funnel is very different there. As far as the size, we like the small- to mid-sized businesses.

The enterprise is something… We’ve worked with one or two enterprise clients. We’ve found that it’s a lengthier process to go through to capture approvals and to devise a plan and to get it implemented and executed. A lot of times with our small business guys or medium-sized businesses we can devise a plan and start to implement next week and start to see results. If we need to monitor and adjust and change direction, we have the approval to do so and the hands-on experience of the team and the client to jump in and do that with us.

Does that answer your question, Trent?

Trent: It does to a certain degree and as always I’ve got some follow- on questions that I want to ask. Now in the pre-interview you mentioned to me because you’re an inbound agency 100% of your income is retainer income. What’s the average size retainer that you are getting from working with the size of clients that you work with?

Rachel: Our retainers are $4,000 monthly up to $12,000 to $15,000 monthly. Well, I just want to point out that that is really diverse to compare one $10,000 month retainer to another, to compare the two customers. They could look very different.

One could be a small business that doesn’t have a marketing department or doesn’t want to bring one on, so they look to us to be an extension of their team, to be their marketing department. For that sized retainer, they’re getting a copywriter, a graphic designer, a web developer, an inbound marketing strategist, a social media expert. They couldn’t get that for that cost if they went to hire all of those people and those experts into their business.

Then we have another client that might have the same retainer size at $10,000 a month, but they’ve got a couple of marketing people and maybe they’re a larger business as far as their revenue goes, but they’re looking for quicker results.

Our retainer fees are based on frequency. A lot of times we lay out for our clients, when they’re choosing how much money to invest in this, we look at some very key research that shows frequency of blogging and number of cumulative blogs on your website and compare that to lead volume and its impact on lead volume. We look at how many landing pages and there are some magic numbers along the way.

We have some clients that opt for a higher retainer so that they can have more frequency and get there quickly and reach critical mass and reach the momentum with their lead generation. Once they’ve reached that point sometimes they’ll scale back and maintain. Sometimes they bump it up and keep on going because they’re getting some results with that.

Trent: Now you mentioned based upon research and I know in our pre- interview we talked about an MIT report that was done in conjunction with HubSpot. Is that the body of research that you’re most often referring to or are there some other items?

Rachel: There are some others. I really like the MIT study. It’s the ROI of inbound marketing and the ROI of using HubSpot for inbound marketing. But some others that I like are “The State of Inbound Marketing” report and HubSpot has put out a couple of reports also, “7,000 Benchmarks for Businesses Using HubSpot and Inbound Marketing.” We refer to those quite often.

The one specifically I was referring to is there’s a graph in “The State of Inbound Marketing” report that shows that your number of cumulative blogs to the number of your median lead volume coming in. When you reach certain benchmarks in certain numbers your lead volume increases exponentially. We try to hit those magic numbers when we’re blogging and building landing pages, so that we can see the lead volume increase.

Trent: Perfect. Now going back to healthcare, healthcare is a huge niche and there are quite a number of sub-niches within it and I’m not even terribly familiar with it to be honest with you. What areas of healthcare are you working with when you say, “We deal with healthcare”?

Rachel: Healthcare it’s a very interesting subject matter right now just because there’s a lot of change happening. There are a lot of upset in the marketplace and there’s a lot of players. You’ve got your physicians. You’ve got your hospitals, your combo care organizations, your insurers. The clients that we worked with in the healthcare field… I neglected to mention there are also the patients, right? All of us.

The ones that we worked with are the business to business in the healthcare industry. It’s a technology company selling quality software to hospitals to keep up with provider data. Or it’s a healthcare consultant, consulting the hospital CEOs on patient safety and patient satisfaction and quality assurance.

We’ve seen that there’s a lot of movement right now and a lot of uncertainty in the healthcare field. What these hospitals and doctor’s offices are doing is they are having to be very efficient in their spending and in their income and how they generate revenue. That really comes directly back to how they market. Not only their operations and how they run their businesses, but how they market themselves. They have an opportunity here to delight existing patients and to keep their current customers and to grow their business.

There are also a lot of mergers and acquisitions going on in the healthcare space right now. We’re seeing a lot of rebranding and re-juggling of who our experts are and where we have experts and on what topics. So there’s really a lot of movement and the sky’s the limit as to what we can do with healthcare right now.

We’re seeing a lot of interesting moves in healthcare marketing that tend to be a little bit more risky, a little bit more transparent of putting yourself out there, whereas five years ago or 10 years ago, it was a little more conservative marketing. So we’re seeing people take some risks just because of the volatility of the space and do some things differently. “Differentiate or die” is the way we could say this from a marketing perspective in healthcare.

Trent: When it comes to the inbound methodology, of course, you’re creating content and making sure that content gets in front of the right people and that it’s written for the right people. How did you get your traction in the healthcare niche because they don’t strike me as the kind of folks who are reading marketing blogs?

Rachel: It’s interesting that when you devise an inbound marketing, when you decide, “I understand inbound marketing and this is the way we’re going to go with our business.” Inbound marketing is more the belief system. It’s more of a way of doing business. We see inbound marketing as not just marketing. We see inbound as a cultural thing, as inbound operations and on sales, inbound delighting of our clients.

Let me just take a second to explain where I’m coming from with that. This is review of you inbound marketers out there, but we know that the way people buy anything has changed. We know that, Trent, if you’re going to buy a car today or next week and you decide you have $30,000 to spend on a car, you’re not going to drive down to the sales lot. You’re going to go online. You’re going to go online first and you’re going to figure out what you can get in that budget and where in your area that you can find some cars on the lot that you can look at. You’re going to read the customer reviews and you’re going to know everything about that car, pull the Carfax before you go down to the lot and talk to the sales guy.

Because we see that consumers are savvy and they have information at their fingertips, apply that to healthcare. Think about “Oh, I have this rash on my arm and it’s itching.” Before I call my doctor, what am I going to do? I’m going to go online. I’m going to Google it. I’m going to research this myself and come to the table as a more educated contributor to my own health.

When we look at healthcare business to business, it’s the same way. We see these CEOs of multi-facility hospitals going on to LinkedIn, and getting in LinkedIn groups for healthcare executive networking and groups like very highly expert groups, asking questions about software, technologies, processes, mergers, and such.

When it comes to inbound marketing, the idea is to create content the people are already searching for. We know the consumer goes online, consumes information, becomes a more educated buyer or patient or whatever they are. What we want to do is create content that’s going to educate and inform when they go looking for information, so that we position ourselves as the expert.

If we’re targeting a healthcare CEO, a hospital CEO to sell our software, we want to be in the LinkedIn group for our healthcare executives’ network and we want to see what the conversations are.

Then we want to create content that we think answers the questions that those CEOs have or the quality directors, or the director of medical staff services or whoever our personas are. We want to create content based on what they’re asking, their questions are.

We have found that in the business-to-business healthcare marketing, LinkedIn groups are frequented by these top level executives searching out answers for how to maintain and sustain in this constantly shifting space in healthcare right now.

I think the key, at least in our opinion, is to go where your customers are. Sometimes inbound marketing is synonymously misplaced with just blogging or with social media. Really it’s, A, who are your personas, B, what questions do they need answered, C, can we solve their problems, and then, D, getting our content in front of our audience. I don’t think it’s enough to necessarily write a blog and publish it on our website and then wait for the masses to come. I think that’s an immature process.

I think the rest of the process is we go and do our research and development first. We frequent those groups and see what people are asking and what they’re looking for and we figure out how we can solve that. Then we write our content. Then when we go back to promote our content, we go to those groups where we see that the potential prospects are.

We have a client in healthcare consulting and they sell a software for credentialing providers. There’s a group on LinkedIn called Credentialing in Healthcare. It’s a direct fit to who they’re trying reach. That’s a great place to promote their blogs or to promote their landing pages and their whitepapers and things that they’re producing. I think it’s a full strategy in order to get in front of these personas and prospects.

Trent: I agree completely. Brilliant answer. I’m glad that you brought up LinkedIn because it’s a tool that I use as well. I don’t consider myself a super expert on it, but I think I do an okay job. I want to dive a little deeper on LinkedIn for a moment. So let’s say that you’re placing your highly relevant content that is high quality and well-written, we’ll just assume that that’s the case because I know that it is, and you’re getting it in front of the right eyeballs.

Do these folks ever comment on it and then do you reach out and make a connection, and then do you send them an email and say, “Hey, thanks for connecting. Would you like to chat?” Or do they just read it, come to your site, download whatever lead magnet report and go through the funnel or is it some combination of both?

Rachel: That’s a great question and what you’re asking really marries in marketing and sales. A good friend of mine, Dan Tyre at HubSpot, calls this smarketing. It’s sales and marketing in the process. The way that this has been the most successful for some of our clients is that they frequent these groups on LinkedIn.

Let me just back up and start with that going into the LinkedIn groups should be perceived like going to a networking event or a cocktail party. When you go, you don’t want to talk about yourself the whole time. You want to talk to other people, ask them what they do, comment on what they’ve got going on, and build some credibility there and build a relationship.

Our clients will go into the LinkedIn groups and see what people are asking and what people are discussing and they’ll jump in. They’ll give their opinion and answer other people’s questions. When other people see that you’re answering their questions, they’re going to jump in and have a conversation with you when you pose a question.

Generally speaking there are opportunities to reference an article that your CEO has written or reference a blog or reference a whitepaper that may help someone who’s struggling with a certain problem. When you reference that and put that link there, we see that a lot of people will click on that link and go back to the website and read the blog.

As best practice, something we always do, is every time we publish a blog on our website, at the very end of it we put a 600 pixel wide by 200 pixel tall call-to-action that goes onto a landing page for some premium content. We view the blog as the appetizer, the teaser, and they read it and it’s compelling enough to make them want more, so they click on that call to action at the end or within the blog.

They go to the landing page and often download the content. At that point we have a process in place, this bridge between marketing and sales, where we’ve got a lifecycle of the lead. We see that they come in and if they fill out a form on our landing page to get a piece of content, they become a lead. But the lead is really just a holding bucket because we know that just because someone fills out a form doesn’t make them a good lead for our business.

Our next step is to qualify them as a marketing qualified lead, an MQL. We generally have a checklist, and we have a marketing designated person at the client’s office that will see the lead come in. They’ll get the notification that so and so has downloaded this whitepaper and they’ll look that person up on LinkedIn or online and they’ll see, “Is this person in our geographic area that we serve? Are they in the industry of our target audience? Are they our persona? Would this be a good customer for us?”

If the answer is no, because it could be your competitor, it could be somebody in Egypt, it could be somebody doing research for their college graduate research paper, we mark them as a subscriber. We let them consume our content all day long.

If they answer’s yes, that they could potentially be a good client for us, we mark them as a marketing qualified lead which just means that they’re qualified for us to continue marketing to them.

At that point, we have some stuff set up behind the scenes for lead nurturing and with marketing automation where because they’ve downloaded this whitepaper, we think the obvious next step would be to watch this webinar or to read this case study. We try to send them emails and try to guide them down the sales funnel to a phone call, basically, with our client.

If the next stage though, after they’re a marketing qualified lead and we continue marketing, we keep our eye on it. If they come back and download other content, we set up some rules and some alerts and notifications to let us know, “Hey, these guys are more interested.”

We also use lead scoring. The more they do on our site. They come back and they read blogs. They share our blogs. They tweet about us. They post something about us on LinkedIn. They’re increasing their score and the sales team is watching this.

We like to get our sales team involved a little bit earlier than normal in the process. What the sales team does is what’s called an outreach call. They might pick up the phone and call this person at some point of engagement and say, “I saw that you’ve downloaded some of our content regarding patient satisfaction. I’m just calling to see if there’s some particular information that you’re looking for or that we could help you with or I could send you.”

It’s more of an outreach call instead of a sales call, but the goal is to find out three things. Does the company have a budget? Do they have an interest or an initiative for what you’re selling? Number three, is that the decision maker or an influencer that you’re talking to? If the answers yes to those, then we mark them from a marketing qualified lead to a sales qualified lead and start the sales process.

That’s the process, I guess, that we put in place. We work with each client individually to define that process, custom it to their business, to their sales team, and the systems that they already have in place. Does that make sense, Trent?

Trent: It makes perfect sense and boy oh boy, audience, I hope you were taking notes because you heard Marketing 101 brilliance just there. That is the exact process that we use in our own agency as well, so well done. Bravo.

Question for you on that. HubSpot is not… You and I are both HubSpot partners so we know the software quite well. It’s not a CRM though and I have a way that I… I’ve made videos and stuff of how I do it, so I won’t dive into that now. I’ll just put a link in the show notes. When someone becomes either marketing or sales qualified, do you pass them from HubSpot to another application of any kind?

Rachel: Generally yes, and it depends on the size of our clients too. Some of them have one or two salespeople and they send their sales team notifications and they manage it in HubSpot with a limited functionality of the CRM. There’s a note field and they keep track of it themselves. Our clients that do want to manage it with a CRM because they’ve got a sales team and a formal process, we generally connect HubSpot to Salesforce or HubSpot to Autotask or something like that. HubSpot has an open API, so as long as the CRM that they’re using also has an open API, we can automate that and push the leads into their system for their sales teams.

Trent: Have you explored did you know that HubSpot gives you 15 free zaps from Zapier?

Rachel: Yes, and we’ve used Zapier for multiple things with HubSpot and having that process seamless really makes a big difference to how well we can execute on the strategy. The other thing HubSpot has is they’ve recently put in integration to Wistia and to GoToWebinar. Now if you’re going to do a webinar for your prospects, you just go into HubSpot. You turn on the GoToWebinar integration, enter your GoToWebinar password, and then when someone registers on your HubSpot form it automatically pushed them to GoToWebinar, which sends them to a unique link for them to join the webinar. There are lots of integrations and Zapier is something we utilize on a regular basis to tie HubSpot to various softwares.

Trent : For me, I use Infusionsoft because it allows me to do all sorts of really cool automation when I pass both my marketing qualified and my sales qualified leads using Zapier over into Infusionsoft. Folks, if you want to see a video on that, at the end of this episode, I’ll give the link to the show notes and there will be a link to that video.

Rachel: That sounds great. Trent, let me ask you a question. When it comes to the process, I feel like we’re talking about a couple of different things here which is great. We’re talking about a marketing process, an inbound marketing process marrying sales and marketing, having this cohesive, seamless process. I can tell from reading your blogs and seeing your videos that you’re really strong in the marketing automation piece of this.

I’m curious to hear maybe what your thoughts are as to how important that marketing automation piece is to the process. You can do the process manually or you can do it in an automated fashion, but how do you foresee the value of that impacting the end result of the email marketing?

Trent: Thank you for the question. If you’ve ever seen the movie Apollo 13 there’s a scene when all hell is breaking loose and Gary Sinise says something to the effect of, “Hey, do we have a process for that?” and that expression permeates my entire organization. We try to never have something that occurs more than once that we don’t have a documented process for. The thing that’s better than a documented process is an automated process.

The reason that I’m such a staunch believer in this is I don’t want things to fall through the cracks. I know that the human memory is prone to failure. Mine sure is. Dealing with turnover and training issues is another area of ROI when you have automation. When you have those systems, the customer experience will be consistent time in and time out, as well as I am very interested in knowing exactly which parts of my marketing and sales are working. That means I need to be collecting data at all times.

Now sometimes I’m able to easily collect data through analytics and clicks and so forth. What happens if there is some type of interaction where the data is not so easy to collect, so I want to also build automation processes? Actually, I recorded a video about this just the other day. I’m actually experimenting with some direct mail as well because I want to get hyper-targeted on some of the people that I’m going after and my content plays a huge role in the direct mail.

I have very carefully selected 100 individuals that I would really love to have as a customer. When they call, as they have been, it very quickly occurred to me I thought, “Man, I’ve got to have a way that when the phone rings and I handle these conversations, I make sure that document what letter was it that caused them to call and what week was it and where did the lead come from?”

With Infusionsoft, and I’m assuming other applications as well, you can build a web forum and I put checkboxes. When someone calls in, of course I’m filling in their name and their email, and putting in the stuff in the right checkboxes. When I click the submit button when I’m done with that inbound call that I’ve received which happened as a result of my marketing, certain things will happen automatically. Certain tags will get applied tasks will automatically be triggered telling me to send a follow-up email.

The goal is if you employ a sales staff, you would ideally like everybody to handle your prospects in exactly the right way so that they go through your process in exactly the right way. I think that the only way to do that is to create a framework of automation. You can customize it of course, on a per person basis. The task says, “Send the templated follow-up email,” but it doesn’t mean that that person can’t go and amend the templated email a little bit and make some personal comments and they should.

What you don’t want to have happen is them forget to send the email, or critical elements of that follow up email don’t get included. Like one of the things that we get on the table right at the get go is how much it costs to work with us. There’s a certain retainer below which we won’t go. We just don’t the customer because the burden of account management is too high relative to the income and it won’t be a profitable customer. I don’t want to find that out at the end. I want them to know right at the very beginning so that we don’t have to waste each other’s time. Does that answer your question?

Rachel: It does and I heard you say so many really cool things that I tried to write down throughout the process, like documented, automated, do we have a process for that, framework. Some of those words I think are key to a successfully implemented inbound marketing strategy. I look at some of the clients that we’ve worked with and a few of our clients maybe worked with another agency or they tried to do it themselves before they came to us and they didn’t have necessarily a process or a framework. I’ve seen people try to do inbound marketing without the framework, without the backbone, without the structure of it.

It seems like when that’s the case these strategies are more, “Let’s write a blog and throw it up on our website and see who comes to visit.” Having that framework not only on the automation, but on the front end of what are we going to write, who are we writing it to, where are we going to place it, how are we going to promote it? I think that framework on the front end is critical, but if you have that framework on the front end, and then you don’t have the automation after the lead is generated, you have a drop off there. You have a big gap in your marketing.

Trent: Huge drop off.

Rachel: Yes. I would say to the listeners today, to our audience, does your inbound marketing strategy have a very secure framework behind it? Just hearing the words that you’re saying, Trent, as you described your automation process, the framework, the process, the documentation, the automation, the structure for turnover, I think that that’s critical.

A lot of marketers, I’m going to say this about myself as well, are right-brained creative people. But putting the structure in place here is a real left-brain task. Making sure that you’re not out there being too creative and forgetting to have your structure in place, I think, is critical to the success of the strategy, to growing your business, to gaining the leads, and closing the leads.

We see people that can generate tons of leads. They can’t close them. We see people that can’t generate the leads, but you put them in front of someone they can close the deal.

I think this is really a marriage of processes and creativity and being on target with knowing who your audience is, knowing what questions they have that need answered, and how you can solve their problems. There are just a lot of pieces to this. I think when the structure is in place, that’s when you set yourself up for success.

Trent: I agree and we’re going to hang on this for a little bit longer. I think you and I can probably compare notes on a few the processes that we’ve developed internally and I suspect that the audience would really love to hear that.

With that said, I know that I do and I’m happy to explain my process, but when it comes to figuring out what content you’re going to create, creating it, making sure that the checklist of items is never missed for every piece of content that is created, optimized, and promoted, we have a system that we use for that. It’s a spreadsheet. It’s got all these columns and then every task is linked to the corresponding page in our wiki and there are training videos for everybody on the team. We’ve really put a lot of effort into having this process. I’m curious how do you do that kind of stuff?

Rachel: Is that an internal process in documentation for your team or do you share that with the client as well?

Trent: It’s internal.

Rachel: Puma Creative was started just about three years ago, and prior to Puma Creative I had the traditional ad agency for six or seven years. With my traditional ad agency we took on any market. We were full service. We took on any marketing project. We were putting billboards in the Panther’s stadium on the Jumbo- Tron. We were designing logos and print collateral and email campaigns. We did it all.

The problem with that, Trent, was that nothing was repeatable. We didn’t have a process because we didn’t repeat the same thing twice. We would sit at the table with our customers and say, “Well, that was nice. We placed that ad in South Park Magazine. Did you get any phone calls this month?” We had no way to measure it, number one, and they would say, “Well, I think we got one phone call from it.” I’d say, “What are we going to do next month?”

We started to see as early as 2008, 2009, and 2010 that this approach just wasn’t working. When I ended up moving on to starting Puma Creative in 2011, the goal was that we were just going to be an inbound marketing consultancy. Only take on inbound marketing clients and stay focused. We’re not going to do traditional outbound marketing unless it’s part of the integrated plan and we’re not going to do project work.

I’m answering your question the long way here, but because we’re three years old as a company we really spent the first two years building our systems and processes and understanding how we do things within our markets and our niches. We spent the first two years figuring it out and then we spent the last year, this past year, really documenting and putting the framework and the process in place. We use Basecamp for our project management and so we’ve set up Basecamp templates.

Trent: We do as well.

Rachel: Do you use that as well?

Trent: We do, yes. For client interaction, work with Basecamp is where it all lives.

Rachel: Yes. We set up these templates for our client. We’ve got a new client coming on May 1st. We’re having our kickoff meeting tomorrow with him. I’ve already set up his Basecamp project, and it has certain sections and certain documents, and it has the processes that we defined for him in place. As far as the blogging and the social media and the content planning and all of that stuff, we’ve got a very distinct process we use for that that’s documented internally and we share that process through our Basecamp project along the topics of our client.

I’ve got this one-sheeter that I’m very happy to share with you. You can put it in the docket it you’d like. It’s an overview of how do a B2B inbound marketing campaign. I think I call it the B2B Inbound Marketing Campaign Asset Sheet. It’s a one-sheeter and it lays out everything you need to implement one campaign. From the top of the funnel, middle of the funnel, bottom of the funnel, all the way down to your landing pages, your content, your headlines, your CTAs, your workflows, your emails for your workflows, your blogs, your social media, everything in one.

We use that as a checklist for the client and we show them this is the big picture, where we’re headed, and these are the content assets that we need and the graphical assets that we need to develop in order to execute this campaign. That matches the Basecamp project that we set up. In Basecamp, we’ve got 10 blogs. We’ll list out a category of blogs and we’ll list out 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, all the way through 10 as placeholders to say, “This is the first month of what this is going to look like that we need to create based on best practice of how to implement this.” I’ll send you that document, Trent, if you want to share it with the group.

Trent: Absolutely. I’d be very happy to do that. It’s a shame. I’d love us to be able to be doing visual right now because I’d love nothing more than to do a screen share and have a look at your Basecamp and compare it to my Basecamp and see how we could both learn from each other and improve. Maybe we’ll have to do that offline and I’ll record it and put it in the show notes as well, if you’re up for it.

Rachel: Absolutely. Like I said, our first two years were figuring out our process and our last year has been documenting it. Sounds like you’re a little bit ahead of us on documenting your internal wiki and all of that, which makes me salivate over what you’ve got in place. Putting those operations in place is critical to growing our business. We’ve gotten a lot of referrals from HubSpot, a lot of referrals from our clients. We’ve got leads that come in, people we’d like to work with, but we have to make sure that operationally we’re set up to handle that. Growing our own business is critical as well, and I think having that framework and process in place for us means that we can help more people.

Trent: Absolutely. You might not know and some of the listeners might not know, on my Bright Ideas blog, each week I publish a post about how I’m building Groove and I go into quite a bit of detail of what we did, what we accomplished that week. A lot of these videos and stuff that I’m referring to I do create and share within my weekly update. If you go Groove and you find… In the categories on the side bar there’s a thing called, I think, the Groove Digital Marketing Project or something like that. If you click that you’ll get to see all of the posts and it’s week by week, everything that we’re doing, lots of detail.

Rachel: I love how you’re so transparent. I’ve read a couple of your blogs on what you’re doing to grow your business and I love the transparency there. That’s something that I’ve really been learning this past year is how valuable the transparency is in not only sharing what you do that works, but in being able to get feedback from other people and enhance the strategies. I commend you for your transparency on that. I think it benefits everybody. Thank you for that, Trent.

Trent: No problem. Those are the most fun posts for me to write. I don’t always have some amazing result to share, but I always have, “Here’s something new that we created,” or, “Here’s a process,” or, “Here’s the results of something that I talked about last week.” The feedback that I get on these posts has been absolutely phenomenal.

My wife was telling me at dinner last night, “None of my family has ever commented on any of your blog posts because I don’t think they read them, until you started to do these weekly updates. Now some of my friends actually send me emails. They actually read your stuff.” People are enjoying it and I enjoy doing it so I will keep on doing that for, well, until I get bored of doing it or until people lose interest, one of the two.

Rachel: I think that what you’re giving there is so valuable to not only how to grow an inbound marketing agency, but how to grow your business in general, how to be entrepreneurial, how to communicate. I love that word. It’s the oldest word, but really what we’re doing with inbound marketing is we are being authentic and real and communicating authenticity to our prospects. I think your blogs are so valuable because you’re letting us see the real deal, the real limitations or problems or successes that you’re having, and that would apply to me growing my inbound marketing agency.

It would apply to a healthcare consultant who’s trying to reach a CEO because you’re giving some very practical hands-on strategies. I think in one of yours that I read you talked about having your VA make a list of the top 100. Here’s how you’re approaching them and here’s what you’re going to do next. It’s very tactical as far as takeaway that I think any of our clients would benefit from as well. I think you’re going to continue to see an upward trend of interest in what you’re doing with that.

Trent: There are some pretty unexpected things that come from this. For example, I’ve had one individual, a fellow by the name of Chris O’Byrne, and gosh, Chris, I wish I could remember your URL off the top of my head, but I will put it in the show notes. He said, “Trent, I really want to help you turn one of your books into a Kindle book and I’ll do it for free. You’ve given me so much value I just want to do this for you.” I said, “Really? Okay.”

My Digital Marketing Handbook is in the process of getting turned into a Kindle book and it’s go onto Amazon. For me, that’s a neat experiment. It’s not something I would have devoted any time or energy to because it wasn’t a priority at this point in time. He said, “I’m really digging that.”

Then Patrick from HubSpot who I’m sure you know quite well, their VP of Sales, he caught wind of these weekly updates that I’m doing and has been all over me on Twitter.

Now he and Greg Fong, our sales guy, we have a three-way call coming up today or tomorrow. He says, “I love what you’re doing. I want to see how I can help you more.”

When you really open the kimono like this, people find it, and then they react in pleasant and unexpected ways. I guess that’s my point in all rambling on like this. It’s go ahead and do stuff like this. Even if you can’t exactly figure out what the immediate benefit will be, trust me, people will find you and they will appreciate you and you will experience benefits that you can’t even predict in advance.

Rachel: I agree with you completely. I go back to I’m working on a book right now that’s supposed to be out in August about the inbound marketing world view about inbound marketing as a belief system, and I think you really are a strong example. You just nailed it on providing value. If you’re providing value, through being real and transparent, you’re showing people the way. You are trying it and then showing people the way to grow their business.

That realness, that being real there is going to get you noticed. Like you said, the benefit of that is growing your business. The benefit of that is beyond growing your business.

I spoke at HubSpot last year at Inbound 2013 and my presentation was called “The $120,000 Close Deck” of how to close a $10,000 a month retainer. I had maybe 150 HubSpot partners in the room and every time I go back to Boston or to any HubSpot event now I have people saying, “Your presentation helped me close my first $10,000 retainer. Thank you for that.”

I had a guy two weeks ago, I was in Boston, and he said, “You’re my hero. You really helped our agency jumpstart.” That’s so rewarding and that’s so fulfilling, but in addition to that, I had a guy in Wilmington from another agency who said to me, “You’ve helped me so much. What can I do to help you? Can I share your content? Can I write a blog for you?”

I think that it makes you feel good of course, and it makes you feel good to know you’re on the right track and that people like you, but it also validates what you’re doing from a marketing perspective. It validates the fact that when you’re being real and authentic and helpful, people need that. People will find that and I think if we apply to that our customers and prospects in the same way and in the same manner, be authentic, be real, be helpful, your prospects will find you too.

I think some people are hesitant with inbound marketing because they want to keep their secrets close to their chest. I think we’re beyond that as a society. We’re beyond that when the consumer knows how to get a move on and find the answers they need in 3.2 seconds. We’re beyond holding your wares into your chest. I think that really hits home with what inbound marketing is. The culture of inbound marketing is giving and sharing and exposing and helping other people.

Trent: Do you have a PDF of the slide deck “How to Close a $10,000 Retainer” that we could also put in the show notes?

Rachel: Oh, I sure do. It was recorded by HubSpot and we’ve got a link to it on their website. I’ll send you that link.

Trent: Awesome. That’d be great. Where are we on time? We’re just about done. One of the things that we haven’t talked about, so we’re going to shift gears here, but I know we did talk about in the pre-interview is what you described as a results-only work environment. Your agency is virtual. My agency is virtual. Many people’s businesses are becoming virtual. I think we would be remiss if we didn’t talk a little bit about how the results-only work environment is working for you. Take it away.

Rachel: Through HubSpot I met these two ladies, Jody and Callie, who’ve written books and they do public speaking engagements about what they call Go ROWE. ROWE stands for results-only work environment. I was very curious, especially the first time I heard them speak. They said that somewhere along the way somebody decided that showing up an office from 8 to 5 equals results. In fact, it does not. The new way of doing business, I guess, is based on, “Did you get the job done? Did we get results from the job that you got done?”

When I started Puma Creative three years ago, I’d had a traditional ad agency before and we had a big office. The name on the walls, we had cubicles and butts in seats, and payroll taxes.

When I exited that business, I was really looking for something more. I spent my entire waking hours at that office and it consumed me. I was really looking for work and life balance or integration of the two. I have small children. I didn’t want to work at that office for the rest of my life.

When we started Puma Creative, I have my home office and started to grow the team and they’re all virtual and we don’t count hours. The rule is “get the job done. Get it done on time. Make the client happy.” Other than that, anything really goes.

I know that for myself I can work from Charlotte, North Carolina, or I can work from India, or I can work from China, Thailand, St. Thomas, or wherever that I want to work, so long as I have my laptop and my cell phone.

I think that that’s how I want to work and my team does as well, so we manage our projects in Basecamp. We use Dropbox to share files. We have entire meetings on GChat and we jump on GoToWebinars with our clients who are spread out all over the world. We get these things done. We make our clients happy. We help them grow their businesses. We have a blast doing it.

Now we’ve evolved through the Go ROWE. We ask ourselves three questions as a business. Number one, are we making an impact? Number two, are we having fun? And number three, are we making money? If the answer is yes to those three, we love what we do. We use that to determine if we’re going to take on a client or not. When we’re interviewing a client or they’re interviewing us, we’re looking too to see, “Hey are we going to make an impact with these people? Are we going to have fun with these people? Are we going to make money with these people?” That’s guided our agency over the past three years, the virtual team and the virtual setting.

One other book, the book “Rework” by Jason Fried from 37signals, the Basecamp developer, was the first introduction I had to the virtual team. He’s extremely profitable with a small team that’s spread out all over the world. That’s what we do and you mentioned that your team is virtual as well.

Trent: Yep, indeed they are. We have two people overseas. We’ve got somebody in northern California who’s just joined our team. She’s our director of operations in the making, starting off with our blog editor. My wife, as many of the people following know, is literally… Well, she’s two day past her due date. We haven’t given birth to our daughter yet, but as you might imagine when that happens, which could be at any moment, her ability to fulfill the role that she’s played will be impaired for a couple of months at least or longer. I really don’t know how long.

We needed to find another individual living in a relatively small town here, Boise, Idaho, the pickings aren’t necessarily exactly as fruitful as what we might have needed. We did try to find someone locally first and couldn’t. Actually we did and we had a false start, so then we just decided… There were certain roles I was very okay with outsourcing and then others where I thought I needed to see faces. After my pre-interview with you, Rachel, I went and I spoke to my wife and I said, “If virtual works for Rachel for key roles, virtual can work for us. Let’s make it happen.”

We had our onboarding interview with Rebecca yesterday and it was my first opportunity actually speaking with her, because Liz generally does the hiring, and I was just absolutely floored at the caliber of talent that we were able to attract to our team. Much like probably many professionals out there, she doesn’t want to work 40 hours a week. She has small kids and wants to be very involved in their lives. She says, “I’ve sure got 30 hours that are available and I have a pretty impressive resume,” which she sure did.

I thought, “Oh, man. What a score,” to be able to have someone who has this level of talent and experience to very affordably add her to the team. The other thing is when you give people the opportunity to work remotely on their own schedule, they’re not nearly so demanding in the salary department.

Rachel: It can be a win/win. It’s really a tradeoff because the value to them is there as well. There’s a lot of research on the productivity and the quality of work you get when you can give these flexibilities. I think that some people aren’t motivated by money as much as they’re motivated by the autonomy or by the freedom or flexibility to be part of their kid’s lives. That’s fantastic. It’s a beautiful relationship when you can find that.

Trent: Let’s close off with this final question then. What tips would you give for people who are looking to attract this type of individual to join their team? How do you do it?

Rachel: Well, that’s a million dollar question, Trent. I think that there are some things that you have to keep in mind. You have to make a list. Maybe start by making a list of what you can live with and what doesn’t matter. For me, personally, the things that matter are, “Is the job done on time to the best of our ability? Is the client happy?” If the answers yes, I don’t care if the person works 10 hours a week or 80 hours a week. Go to the dog park, enjoy the sunshine. See you later, as long as the job is done. We don’t even count hours.

As far as finding those people, we use several resources. Of course we use HubSpot to refer us. People who have experience with inbound marketing, has a new hiring portal on their website. We use oDesk and Freelance.

Although I will say that if we use something like oDesk to find team members, what we like to do is assign them a project and then if it goes well we assign them another project, and we have this trial period.

Our goal in using something like oDesk is to find somebody that can be a permanent part of our team through oDesk, not a one-off outsourced person. We have, let’s see, five or six people through oDesk that we’ve been working with for two years or more and they’re loyal and committed to us for the full term. That’s how we like to work.

My advice would be, A, start with making a list. What do you need? Then when you go to find them, utilize HubSpot, utilize, utilize oDesk, Freelance, LinkedIn, etc. Make sure your offer is motivating from what that person needs as well as what you need. When you can find a win/win, it makes life so much more fun. It makes it fun for both people involved.

Trent: Absolutely. Here’s some irony for you. I’m looking at Amazon as we’re talking about this. One of the little book suggestions along the bottom is a book by an internet friend of mine by the name of Chris Ducker. It’s called “Virtual Freedom: How to Work with Virtual Staff to Buy More Time, Become More Productive, and Build Your Dream Business.” You can get that on Amazon for like $9. Props out to you, Chris. I know you probably aren’t going to be listening to this, but if you are, there you go.

Rachel: There you go.

Trent: Well, Rachel, thank you so much for making some time to spend with me here on the show. If people want to get a hold of you, what is the one easiest way to do that?

Rachel: The easiest way to reach me on Twitter @RachelCogar and of course my website is Puma Creative. You can Google me and I’m there. It’s been my pleasure, Trent. Thank you for having me. I’ll send you some documents that we discussed that you can include out to the listeners. If you need me for more conversation or collaboration, please feel free to reach out.

Trent: Oh, I will definitely be doing that. Thank you again so much for making the time today.

Rachel: My pleasure. Have a great week.

Trent: To get to the show notes for this episode go to If you enjoyed this episode, which I sure hope you did because I know I sure did, I’d love it if you help me to spread the word very easily. All you need to do is go to where there’s a prepopulated tweet awaiting of your mouse. It couldn’t be easier, could it?

That’s it for this episode. I am your host, Trent Dyrsmid. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode. I hope to have you back for another one which will be available in just a day or two. That’s it. Take care. We’ll see you again. Bye-bye.


About Rachel Cogar

Rachel Cogar, the Founder and CEO of Puma Creative, a HubSpot Gold Certified International Consultancy, is a progressive-thinking, profit-driven inbound marketer who isn’t afraid to try something new. Always on the cutting edge of innovation and best practice, Rachel is revered as a thought leader AND a doer in the field of business strategy, communications and inbound marketing. Rachel and her team consult and coach clients across the world to perform at optimal levels for lead generation and demand generation marketing. Rachel is the author of The Inbound Marketing Worldview, the up and coming business book that describes the belief system we have about consumerism and how our worldview affects our behavior as marketers.

Rachel’s ambition and her ability to think “bigger” attracts CEOs and marketing teams who can see past tradition and want to be remarkable. Her passion for remarkability is dynamic and infectious, and continues to guide clients and their marketing teams to great success. Rachel believes that *sometimes* the rules truly do not apply – that is, the rules we’ve always known – but have never questioned. Question the rules; question the norm; and always look for ways to be remarkable.

Additional Resources

Drew McLellan

Agency Veteran Drew McLellan on How to Increase Agency Profitability

Are you a new agency owner? Do you have an agency that’s been around a while but isn’t growing?

In today’s episode I interview Drew McLellan. Drew has owned a marketing agency for almost 20 years, and has revenue of over $2.5 million per year. He is also the founder of the Agency Management Institute which advises other small and medium size agencies on how to increase profitability.

Drew has found that many agency owners start out because they are really good at a particular marketing craft. Once they go from being a practitioner to an owner, they find themselves swimming in waters of overwhelm dealing with all the things they don’t know.  Listen in for powerful advice on growing a successful agency by focusing on the mechanics of the business.

We finish off the interview talking about how to crowd source books which can be a huge boon to your business.

Listen now and you’ll hear Drew and I talk about:

  • (03:00) Introduction
  • (05:00) What type of agencies do you work with?
  • (07:00) What advice would you give to new agency owners?
  • (12:00) How should a solo agency owner make the the transition to team building?
  • (16:00) Should agencies focus more on inbound or outbound?
  • (27:30) Why is having processes so important for agency owners?
  • (33:00) How does one crowd source a book?
  • (39:00) How many authors contributed to each book?

Resources Mentioned

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Drew McLellan

Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 25+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R.

He also owns and runs Agency Management Institute (AMI), which offers agency management training, consulting and facilitates agency owner peer networks for small to mid sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media and PR) so they can increase their AGI by at least 25%, attract better clients and employees and best of all — exceed the agency owner’s life/financial goals.

Drew’s agency was a member of the organization for years before Drew acquired AMI and began to run it full-time.

He launched his agency’s blog in 2006 and it has been on the AdAge Top 150 from the list’s inception. His first book, 99.3 Random Acts of Marketing, was published in 2003 and Drew and Australian marketer Gavin Heaton created the Age of Conversation series of crowdsourced books in 2007. To date, the AOC series has raised over $50,000 for charity. Drew launched the AMR blog in 2012 and hopes it will be a great resource to agency leaders.

Drew’s often interviewed/quoted in Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.”

When he’s not hanging out with agency owners/staff, Drew spends time with his family and pondering why the Dodgers can’t seem to get back to the World Series.

Drew has a Master’s Degree from the University of Minnesota but alas, he cannot remember their fight song.


How Evan Owens Built a $3.5 Million Digital Agency

Evan Owens has built Centresource to $3.5 mil revenue last year by attracting the right clients and employees. Centresource is a digital agency that makes, markets and measures digital experiences for companies.

In today’s episode I get Evan to share the type of work Centresource does, who they work for and how they generate leads. We also discuss how content marketing plays a role in their business, how they pick which local networking events to attend and how both of these strategies generate leads. Pay close attention and learn a very smart thing Evan does once he builds a relationship with event organizers.

Listen now and you’ll hear Evan and I talk about:

  • (03:00) Introduction
  • (04:30) What type of work does your firm do?
  • (07:30) How do you structure the billing of your software development projects?
  • (08:45) What KPI’s do your customers focus on the ensure they are getting an ROI?
  • (10:34) Which areas of healthcare are you getting traction with?
  • (12:00) How are you generating leads in healthcare?
  • (15:15) How do you find events to attend?
  • (19:00) Please describe your process for content marketing.
  • (27:00) Please tell me about how you go about hiring salespeople.
  • (34:00) Should an agency choose just one niche?

Resources Mentioned

More About This Episode

The Bright Ideas podcast is the podcast for business owners and marketers who want to discover how to use online marketing and sales automation tactics to massively grow their business.

It’s designed to help marketing agencies and small business owners discover which online marketing strategies are working most effectively today – all from the mouths of expert entrepreneurs who are already making it big.

Listen Now

Leave some feedback:

Connect with Trent Dyrsmid:

About Evan Owens

Evan Owens is the CEO for Centresource Interactive Agency. Founded in 2003, Centresource helps their clients merge technology and marketing strategies to produce measurable results in the areas of growth, retention, efficiency, training and analytics. Throughout his career, he has helped a broad base of organizations such as Adobe, Healthways, Singer Sewing, Mapco, and SESAC revolutionize their marketing and technology strategies.

Under his leadership, Centresource has expanded to a national client base and is privileged to be named in the INC 5000, the Hottest 100 Companies in TN and the Inner City 100 Fastest Growing Companies in the US lists. Also in 2010, Centresource was selected as a finalist for the .NET Design Agency of the Year.

Evan holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Music from Belmont University. Outside of Centresource, he is the co-founder of Reboot Combat Recovery, a non-profit dedicated to helping service members heal from the spiritual wounds of war such as Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and combat trauma.