Trent: Everybody welcome back to another episode of The Bright Ideas Podcast. I am your host Trent Dyrsmid as always, the goal is to share with you what is working in the world of online marketing and e-Commerce and the way that I do that as I bring rather proven experts onto the show to share with you and I the real world expertise and we are going to do just that in today’s episode with my guest Jason.
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All right so, with the sponsor mentions other way Jason thank you so much for making some time to come and be on the show we are going to talk about webinars.
Jason: My favorite topic!
Trent: Your favorite topic indeed and one is mine as well; so Jason I have decided to do this as kind of a discussion about a webinar that I run every single month for the Bright Ideas brand before we get into that, maybe Jason let’s start with just a quick intro of yourself in your own words who are you and what do you do?
Jason: So I’m Jason Fladlien and who am I? Free some many things but I really like to think I’m a marketing strategies like to see where the gaps are in the marketplace that I can get into and own the space of whether my company rapid crush can and so the micro would be the webinar but the macro is the ultimate position what spot in the marketplace is being underserved or not served at all that if served would be highly lucrative to the brand and super valuable to that market space and that’s pretty much what I do.
Trent: You have a pretty impressive track record and I know your intro there you were pretty humble; why don’t you just talk a little bit about some of the results that you’ve been able to achieve using webinars.
Trent: Yeah so between what we’ve done internally in our own company as well as what we’ve done with other companies, over $100m in trackable webinar sales in the last decade probably a hair under the last decade which every time I utter those numbers out loud and it sounds unbelievable to me even but it is, it’s crazy.
I started doing webinars in 2008 or 2009, there was no rulebook forum back then and I had no previous business experience really so I had to make it all up. I couldn’t borrow from any other thing and bring it in. So I created from the ground up which ultimately was a huge benefit to me.
So I’ve been able to work with some of the top people in the world like we helped Larry King with a webinar, the webinars for Tony Robbins and a lot of the big name guys like Russell Brunson give me credit is teaching them how to do webinars and it’s been amazing for me small town Iowa boy to be able to do that but that’s what it is.
Trent: No kidding, congratulations on that success and I will say when I was preparing for this interview, I noticed when I visited Jason’s site that he does have a book that you could get on Amazon so if you don’t want to shell out however many thousands of dollars to attend one of the conferences that he’ll be speaking at, you can go and get the book on Amazon, what’s the title of the book Jason?
Jason: ‘One Too Many’ so the book is called ‘One Too Many’ The Secrets of a webinar success.
Trent: Okay, all right so now let’s dive into the meat of the discussion. So I have a webinar, let me give you some background first of all. A couple of years ago, I spoke at a conference I had no product for sale, I was speaking about the success that I had had in my Amazon e-Commerce business and that business we’re a reseller; we partner with brands, we help them on the Amazon marketplace to grow their sales solve problems et cetera et cetera. My business did a million bucks in the first year and the guy who I’d interviewed on this podcast and he’s the reason I kind of got into that business calls me up after a year and he’s like wow dude you know like, “You did really, really well, How did you do it?” I explained to him that I had this huge focus on standard operating procedures, on building a team on delegation.
He said, “That sounds really cool, would you like to come speak about it?” So, I said “Sure” Got up on stage, had nothing for sale at the beginning, I told everybody Look I got nothing for sale you’re going to have to take really good notes because this is the only time you’re going to get this other than maybe you can watch it recording. At the end of that, we were overwhelmed with work requests to sell people a copy of our collection of standard operating procedures and we made a million bucks worth of those in the next year.
And I was like, “This is pretty awesome” So then I thought to myself, you know I’m doing this in these big product launches, I got line up all these affiliates, I’d sure love a way to be able to scale that down and make it something that I could repeat every single month to my own list and ultimately could I drive page traffic to it? Could I make it convert and could I use that as a way of building my audience and growing my list faster?
So, I set out to become something of a student of webinars and so here’s what I did. I created— then it’s not the format that I follow, it’s not unlike what you outlined in the book. I watched a bunch of other people’s webinars and kind of got an idea if I would’ve known about your book I would have bought it for sure. So I put up a registration page, pretty simple to the point you know here’s what you get, here’s the benefit, here’s the time, here’s a little bit about me and then the webinar structure. So I took my product and I took just a little slice of it because I knew that I didn’t think I didn’t know.
I didn’t think that pitching a $2500 product on just a one type webinar was maybe going to be the best use of my time and effort because those launches that we do there two week affairs and they’re like horrible. Oh yeah. So I thought all right I’d watch somebody else’s webinar and her offer was for $397 So I thought, “Okay, I’m going to try that, I’m going to try $397 offer what can I make for $397? I’m going to take a little tiny slice of my $2500 product and it would be the things that they would need at the very, very beginning of the journey to start a business like my Amazon business.
So there are procedures around sourcing products, so instead of 77 SOPs in this offer, they get seven. So what I did that actually this was turn into more Q and A. So knowing that that is the problem that I want to solve right, walk me through based upon your many years of experience, walk me through the process of creating that webinar and how to market it and so forth all the things that you have expertise in.
Jason: So first of all, I took a step back and said, “Let’s try to sell the $2500 product first and that might not be fair. For most people, a lot of it’s psychological, a little of it’s technical because the marketplace is not used to seeing $2500 products sold one off webinars without a big build up. We tend to conclude that that’s not possible but I have many, many, many examples of experience that prove that otherwise because the reality is what I’m going to write a webinar that sells a $2500 product or one that sells a $400 our product, it’s going to take me about the same amount of time and effort because there’s certain things that need to occur before a complete stranger who doesn’t really know who you are decides that, “Hey, I trust you enough to give you money” and believe it at least enough in your promises to take that risk or that gamble.
The other thing there Trent is a webinar is a start of a conversation so if somebody says no to the $2500 product it’ll be very easy to follow up and down sell them into a $300 product. So it’s way easier to make somebody feel like they got $2100 off, they saved $2100 but taking a step down than it is to bring somebody up who just spent 300 trying to get them to spend $2200 more. So that’s the strategy to consider behind it and really, the reality is it’s like the number one complaint people have to have on our strategy. Let me ask you this question, how long is your webinar right now selling, $300 or $400 product?
Trent: Including Q and A or just the deck?
Jason: Pretty much the deck like when you’re done with the last line, what does the time say?
Trent: About 50 minutes back, actually no. The offer comes up at 1 hour and 9 minutes. So they right around an hour.
Jason: So yeah you’re on in 60 minutes at least and the big complaint that people are going to say is who would ever want to sit on a 60 minute webinar? It’s like there’s a lot isn’t it.?
Trent: They’ll stay out of the sky as they do rise to the end. They go to including Q and A we’ll go 2hours and the count of attendees at the end is almost identical to what it was at the beginning.
Jason: Absolutely! And so the beautiful thing is if you understand that concept and really think about it took me about 6 years to understand this concept. First of all, 90% of a market that would be interested in what you have to offer won’t spend 60 minutes but they won’t come to your webinar because they’re not interested enough in that topic or they’re not leveraged enough at this point to put that effort; they might one day or they might not.
But 10% of your market will put in at least 60 minutes and then be disappointed that there’s not 60 more minutes as long as there’s more informative, interesting, engaging content.
A 2hour webinar that’s interesting will outperform a one hour webinar and a 3hour one will outperform a 2hour and a 4hour will outperform a 3 typically and run out of energy before our audience runs out of appetite of consumption right? I mean we go to seminars that are maybe 3days long and they’re 8hours it is 24 hours of information and even then we’re not created.
So now, here’s the economics of any marketplace, if we really stop to think about it as 10% of your market is going to spend 50% of it’ dollars. So that’s who we love to point the marketing at is the few people who control the majority that markets dollars. So reaching them and getting them to commit 60minutes of their time and attention and maybe even up to 120minutes without very little minimum drop off as you just discussed, we can build an argument in a case almost as easily for a $2500 product as we could for a $300 or $400 product because these people are committed and so they are more interested in the right type of outcome than they are cost conscious, does that make sense?
Trent: Yeah it does
Jason: So but you know sometimes you have to see it before you can believe it; so let’s just go with what we got here so the price point exactly on this offer is what?
Jason: Is it a one off only or do you give them payment options?
Trent: There is also– they have 14 days where they can upgrade to the 42500 product and a portion of them always do.
Jason: Okay good and when we’ll definitely get to that, so the first kind of concept here though I would look at is you know this is and just remind me again 397 right? So we have to convince somebody in an hour long period of time to spend that amount of time or maybe 2 hours. So the first thing that we would look at is the offer in this particular case. Do you offer any bonuses or do they just essentially buy the SOP? And that’s what they’re exchanging money for.
Trent: There are bonuses available only on the webinar you know in addition and the price of the product if they go to my website, it’s $597. So there is a bonus of a tune a more savings and there is a bonus of additional content.
Jason: And then this is great because you’re actually getting a little bit ahead of me which is fine because part of the offering because the first thing we do when we look at structuring a webinar is how do we make the offer as attractive as humanly possible? My goal is to always make somebody feel like they’re ripping me off when they purchase from me; like they almost feel bad that they’re taken advantage of me because. They’re like, “God, if only he knew how valuable this was, He wouldn’t he wouldn’t give it away for so little cash” You know I want every client and customer to feel that.
So, it starts with the offer and part of the offer is what they get and what they get is combined between what they think they pay for and what they have for free. And so, the bonuses are what they get for free. And that’s actually more attractive and powerful to purchasers than what they pay for. So they look at values the dollars on what they pay for and then every free thing that they get is an extra thing that they otherwise wouldn’t get. So, the psychology behind that is really powerful so what do we link towards what they pay for and what do we link towards what they get for free, that’s part of the offer.
The other part of the offer is the scarcity and scarcity is for anybody listening to this is being most compelling and powerful motivational tool you can use to convert a sale. There is nothing stronger on this earth to move somebody from no to a yes than scarcity. So we put we put a lot of effort into scarcity because the reality is people move towards pleasure at a smaller degree than they will to move away from pain and scarcity to avoid pain and to want to miss out, it’s a negative frame not a positive thing.
So in your particular case on the webinar, you make the case at some point times as you’re listening get this every single day on my website provide $597 or if you act before the end of this webinar you get it for $397 plus you get all these bonuses is that in a nutshell essentially how you use this scarcity trap?
Trent: Yep, in the end the replay is only up for 72 hours and once the rally is gone everything’s gone.
Jason: And this is awesome because like a lot of people when they come to me Trent and they want to talk about webinars they get super tactical; you know they talk about language patterns and then they will talk about all kinds of really advanced microscopic things that arguably don’t matter too much. And we worked, we’re talking about her strategy which is really important because it’s less about how many people buy it though on the webinar and it’s more how they buy through the cycle of the campaign as I like to call it. So the first question we say is the replay is there not a replay in your particular case. There is a replay and the replay is only available for 72 hours right?
And then the second question that we ask is, “Do we make more money by offering a replay or not?” I generally in the companies I consult with and write webinars for, we will typically make more money off the replay than we will actually after all than the live Webinar, right? So if we sell 25 units on the live Webinar, we might sell 40 units on the follow up replays.
Now there are exceptions to that and so this is something we’d have to determine here is, one of the major exceptions that we would run into in this particular case is, if you have webinar only bonuses. So if anybody watches the webinar and they find out after the webinar they could have got something for free that they can no longer get. That doesn’t make our buyers feel very good and now they’re associating bad feelings with our offer. And so the replay could potentially be affected. Now just let me ask you if you feel comfortable sharing this. What’s your replay look like versus your actual life or the webinar that’s when it’s going on, is it conversion rate the same is it a lot less or is a little bit less?
Trent: It’s actually much higher and I think [interesting], I think that that might be to do with scheduling so I do my webinars at 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time so because I don’t want to work in the evenings and I’m in my own time, so there could be an issue of you know people are at work or they’re commuting or depending on what time zone they’re in and whereas the replay, they’re able to watch it at their own schedule.
Jason: Your bonuses when you say well one hour only bonuses they don’t get those bonuses that they buy the next day on the replay. Right. They only get those if they are there live or did they get those within the 72 hours of the expiration?
Trent: They get all the bonuses within the 72 hours.
Jason: Okay perfect! And that’s typically most of the time that’s how I structured the offers. A lot of people what they’ll do is, they’ll those though you know they’ll do if you buy before the webinar ends today then you’ll get these bonuses and that will like double conversion on the webinar itself but it will kill the replay.
Here’s the mistake a lot of people make by the way, that we only learn to do data analysis trend is a majority of our buyers are people that were on the webinar but didn’t buy on the webinar. They went home and slept that night, they thought about it the next day, they did their research or most often they do it like they study for a test put it off to the last minute and pull it overnight, right? Everybody likes to wait to the last minute, that’s why the scarcity is so powerful.
You know now with a lower ticket item which is what I would consider what you have in this market as a stair step is, we can put more pressure towards impulsivity purchasing because a $400 thing is not a make or break deal whereas a $2500 could be the difference like, “Do I pay the bills this month or not?” in which we won’t we don’t want to put somebody through that situation.
So that’s some of the things that you could potentially play with for in terms of how you structure this but in generally and generally speaking, you’ve structured that the exact way that I typically recommend. I feel more comfortable not putting people on a buy or die scenario, pressure cooker, you have to buy right now or bad things will happen. I like to let them know they can have a chance to buy right away, we urge them to buy right away but we follow up follow up, follow up, close.
Okay so now let’s look at the scarcity though from a deeper level in that at a lower price point this matters last at a higher price point but it still matters scarcity is so important; we need a strong reason for them to believe in this scarcity in the belief that it is viable. So what’s your reason why? What do you tell them on the webinar and right now why it’s $397 on the webinar versus $597 on your website and why they get bonuses on the webinar whereas they wouldn’t if they bought straight from your website?
Trent: I tell them because they invested their time to come and spend an hour or two with me and I want to make sure that they come away from that time first of all with maximum value like there’s a question there’s a slide where I say, “If you left now and didn’t buy anything would you be better off?” The vast majority of our time screen lights up with the thumbs up in the webinar software. So I feel that I’ve accomplished my mission in that regard. And then I say, “Well, I want to reward you for being here and investing this time with me in furthering your relationship with me and my brand by making you this offer”
Jason: Perfect! So it’s a really— that’s the standard reason why that we tell clients to use it for no other reason. Hey because you invested in me, I want to invest in you. You put your time in me that shows me you’re a go getter, you’re somebody who’s going to take action, you’re somebody who’s focused and committed and so you’re somebody who I would like to back and this was how I’m going to back you instead of asking you to pay the normal retail price of $597 which any stranger can do any day of the week.
Not alone am I going to give you a time limited special offer discount but if you act fast, anyway you’re going to get the discount you’re also going to get some goodies and let’s talk about what those goodies are yadda yadda yadda et cetera et cetera right? That’s really powerful reason why I would consider how this could work two ways and what’s great about webinars is they’re very fluid. So you can take this out if it doesn’t work. I would consider an alternative reason why.
And the reason why I would structure something like this it would say I am so confident that when you see these seven SOPs and you dive in, you’re going to want the other 70 or however many these aren’t right so really I’m just kind of hooking you up to give you a little taste knowing full well that once you get on the inside, you’re going to be so excited to convert to the higher level. And so the reason I’m doing this is to get you in there and I’m not about bribery to do it essentially right?
I’m actually foreshadowing this second sale on the first set and I wouldn’t be bashful about that. I’d say my goal is to get you to spend $2500 with me to get all of these SOPs but I know $2500 is a tall order and a tall ass for you. So I’m doing this the way that I’ve always been taught to live life. Let me be super valuable to you first and then after I prove myself then you can decide. And so this is what I’m doing for you today. I am doing something that I shouldn’t be doing, this should definitely not be $397 and you should absolutely not get all these incredible bonuses for this price and under normal circumstances that wouldn’t be possible.
But here are the circumstances that allow it because you’ve invested your time in me today you’re somebody that I know is the right person now you can continue with that rhetoric but I believe you would not see any decrease in conversion on the webinar and you might even see some increase on the webinar for the first product but I would be very certain that if you do that right and it might take a little bit to get that just right; then you would see an increase on the upgrades from the people that take the offer on the front end that we’ll take the offer on the second end.
We always you know– we’re selling the second product before we sell them the first product in that scenario and I think that would be worth trying because most often, people will buy in at the low level. Now, this is the psychology trying just so you know is what the customer is going to think. Yeah. Sure Trent whatever I’m just going to buy the front end product. I’m not going to buy that back end product. I’m just going to take advantage of this deal. We’re just totally bought, right? But the reality is we have planted a thought in their head to consider bull’s eye to aim for. Well if he does do that, then yeah I would and by making them more open to it and make them feel more like that’s just the natural progression of how life should unfold, they’re going to be more likely to do that anyway.
And the reality was that’s how it was always intended in the first place because that’s how you created the product originally, this is a derivative of that product that would even tell that story of how you created the full product and then you realized that you know it’s probably too much too soon for too many people. But that’s what I would consider playing within finessing obviously back of the napkin not the top of my head on a podcast. The language is a little rough, the concepts a little bit ham fisted but the general strategy there would be to foreshadow the second sell as a reason why they’re getting such a good deal on the first sell because if your business was only to sell them seven SOPs, there’s no possible way you would give away gold for copper prices.
You only do so because you know you’re going to make it up on the back end. That’s why they’re getting such an incredible deal but it’s only for a limited time because they’re on the webinar today etc. So does that make sense?
Jason: Yeah it’s very funny because a lot of us tend to shy away from our real intentions when I have found typically if we bring them out and put them forward and just make a strong case for them, that’s actually more effective. Those lying about you offer a guarantee or not?
Trent: I do.
Jason: Okay well what is that guarantee?
Trent: Any time within 30 days they can get a refund.
Jason: Perfect! That’s a standard guarantee; generally what we do is at the very least, we will use a guarantee like that one. But something to consider is dramatizing the guarantee a little bit or dressing it up or making it more exciting and interesting.
So if we did nothing more than give it a name and then build up to the concept of really playing it out I think that could see an increase because all my best webinars try and have heads better than money back guarantees which I don’t think makes sense for the price point that you have right now. But even the webinars I had standard regular guarantees, we would try to go the extra level to really dimensional those guarantees because people are way more likely to say no to your offer because they are afraid of something than they will ever on price, than they will ever on products, topic, believability or any other issue.
The biggest scare is going to be well what’s what bad things are going to happen to me when I buy your product right? And so I really spend the time to take that away from them. So I even ask myself and a lot of my really powerful webinars guarantees come from, what other costs may they incur besides buying my products? Because even if I gave them the money back from my product are they out in some other way shape or form or are they just some other way harmed or damage? Because then it’s not truly risk free. And if that’s the case, how do I address that? Now if that’s not the case, then how can I hype that up? You know can I give them a reason to measure whether they should get a guarantee you’re not going to be super effective.
So what I say to them Listen 30 days from now one of three things will happen; the first thing is you’re going to get way more than your money’s worth. You’re going to feel really good about this thing and you’re going to consider getting the other SOPs which is probably going to happen for you most likely if at a crystal ball out of those three things that are about to happen to you that’s the first one. The second one is you’re going to get in right away and you’re going to say this is completely rubbish. There’s nothing good about this. I’ve been tricked. What a piece of crap product, you’re going to want your money back and whether that’s 1 minute from now or 29 days and 23 hours from now you get your money back no questions asked.
You don’t even have to give me a reason, I don’t even want to hear a reason just say give me my money back in yours done. That’s the second option that almost never happens. But hey let’s just bring it up. That’s a possibility as remote as it is, just like getting hit by a bus when you cross the street might happen even though it probably won’t happen.
Let’s talk about scenario number three though, scenario number three is where you see promise but for some reason or another you don’t act on it right away or if you do this this and this but there are some things that life interferes what happens to you after 30 days? While you no longer have the risk free no questions asked guaranteed.
But you have my better than money back guarantee which states that this if you do X, Y and Z and don’t see 1-2-3, I’ll still give you your money back even if it’s 90 days from now or 150 days from now, right? That is how confident now this is important, the reason why we give the guarantee that is how confident I am in this product and I want to let you know that I am so assured of the benefit that you get that I’m willing to go the extra mile on your behalf to help you understand that the only real losing situation here is doing nothing.
And again, that’s rough, that’s not that’s 5 minutes or two minutes of effort. That’s not me with a slide deck crafting it for an hour like you normally do right? But we need to remove as marketers, what I’ve noticed trend is we typically focus on all the benefits because we’re typically optimistic, I mean you know multimillionaires.
I haven’t needed to work a day in my life for the last 6 years I don’t use alarm clocks right, I go wherever I want, do whatever I want whenever I want. Life’s pretty damn good for me. Now most of the people that get on webinars and are willing to sit there for an hour like at least for that particular issue topic or problem is not very good for them. So we’re coming from a world of abundance and they’re coming from a world of scarcity work over a world of prosperity, they’re coming from a world where there’s just pressure.
So we have to kind of remember that we have to talk about the bad not just the good. We typically talk about benefits and great outcomes and amazing things and fantastic because that’s the world we live in and for this particular issue it’s really good for you. You’ve already solved the problem there on the beginning of the journey of solving the problem. So we have to make sure to address the very scary dark deep secretive things that are running through their head and bringing them out and showing them that they’re not really that bad and that you’re going to take care of them.
So the guarantee is one function of how we do that but I also bring that up even during the presentation. So that’s what we would look at for the offer. Now let me ask you this because you’ve done this webinar how many times live?
Jason: I bet there are probably because you do these actually live, right here on the call live with them?
Trent: I am, I do it once per months live and then about a month ago, I started an experiment where evergreen did. I’m driving paid YouTube traffic to it.
Jason: Nice! That’s a smart strategy, we typically will do live webinars to audiences that we can email and we’ll do evergreen webinars to every other audience especially paid traffic. That’s a whole different discussion that lets us stay with the live one. I would imagine when you get to Q and A there are certain questions that you’ve noticed that have been asked over and over again is that right?
Trent: Pretty much yes.
Jason: What’s the number one question people ask you during the Q and A portion after they’ve heard your whole pitch in your whole spiel and they still haven’t bought yet, what are you getting normally?
Trent: I mean to think about that one a minute, I know I should have an answer right quick off the top of my head.
Jason: Or anyone just for the sake of this podcast so anybody listening can see the thought process really doesn’t matter because we’re going to have to do this for like five different things anyway.
Trent: Okay, I know what it is, I know what it is, how easy is it going to be for me because a part of my pitches standard operating procedures make it easy to delegate. So the question is going to be how do I hire a VA? Train them and is it easy to delegate?
Jason: Okay! And do you have any bonuses right now that crush that objection?
Trent: Let me just have a quick peek in to the product because I don’t remember off the top of my head as much as I should.
Jason: That’s okay, I understand.
Trent: We mean not bonuses it’s core part of the offering, there are interesting procedures in there that facility I mean that’s kind of the core value prop of the product.
Jason: That logically makes total sense right? I’m telling you emotionally though even if it’s part of the core product I would consider creating a separate standalone bonus that drills down even more specifically to that one concept right? If this was a higher priced product trap or maybe even if it’s not you have a connection, I would go out on my client’s behalf and work a deal with a third party VA company that I felt very comfortable with work a special better than public offer and ship them as part of the bonus for my offer, right?
It would have to be free to them to make it work so no cost incurred for them but if you could work with a company where their first VA for X number of hours is free because you negotiated that deal that will crush that objection to oblivion and people will be like, “Oh my God, I got to buy this right away”
The thought process behind this trend is if I can retail arbitrage bonuses from third parties that on that total together more than what I’m asking for the price of my product, I’m essentially making my product better than free and almost all of my webinars have done that and they all start from that root of objection. That’s one of the ways that’s not the only way we’re going to smash that objection by the way because objections are so insidious to the sale that we bring a bazooka to kill them not a hammer.
So, that might be considered one of the issues. Yeah. The other thing is even on the guarantee you could say, “Hey listen, here’s the deal, If you follow x, y and z and you hire a VA and they don’t perform well and you know up to $400 we will reimburse you on your VA provided you do 1-2-3 on a conditional guarantee”
That’s a lesson on what you could do to power up and punch up the guarantee. And again I wouldn’t do this on a $400 product but I would consider doing things like this on a $2500 product if I’m selling that on the front end. More important though is the lesson not the specific which is, how do we make our offer so attractive that somebody would feel more that– would they would feel stupid for not saying yes to it? We want to make an offer so good that people feel bad for not saying yes to it. And that’s one of the ways that we play with it. So the whole concept of delegation is very scary to most people. Do you use testimonials in your webinar anywhere?
Trent: Absolutely! I have several screenshots and one video.
Jason: Perfect! So what I would attempt to do for big objections, let’s assume this is the number one objection or we think it is. In the introduction, I would put a testimonial that would talk about how somebody was able to delegate even though they’d never done it before or something along the lines of the objection they have brought it up and it was handled. I would want three different testimonials in three different places. I’d want a testimony on the intro, one in the content section and one in the pitch section. So, there would be three different testimonials that all talk about want. One of them might say, “Hey listen, I never did delegation before I was super freaked out about it and boy was I surprised at how easy it was, if I had known this 6 years ago, I’d probably already be a millionaire by now”
You know a testimony like that I have another testimony that says, “Listen, I’ve done delegation in the past, it was a disaster, you know it’s like hiring a kid to mow your lawn and he just steals from you instead and leaves, gets the daughter plugged in and runs off to Vegas, I was really scared to try that again based on the battle scars of the past. But the way that Trent laid it out, made it easy as pie and it was just super simple and I was able to move forward with it”
And you know a third person might be like, “Hey, I’m an outsourcing pro but even I was able to do this easier than I’ve ever had before, thanks Trent” So three distinct testimonials from three different angles that all handle that objection placed in three different locations one in the beginning, one in the middle and one in the end. Now there’s a lot of psychology behind why we do that because it’s an anchor and amplify technique.
Anytime you bring up a testimonial, they’ll remember the previous testimonial so they’ll relive that testimonial as long as it’s of the same type, right? So all three of these testimonials are along the same type of this is my objection. So each time we have a new one; they’ll remember the old one again and then they’ll link it to the new one. So it won’t feel like an incremental increase, it’ll feel like an exponential increase. And so by doing it in three different locations time wise, we capture them at three different stages of being open to the idea, being interested in the idea and then being invested in the idea.
So I would look at doing that and I would also look at doing that with any other test him or with any other major, major objection that somebody might have having a three different testimonials specific to that objection and making them obvious because this is the biggest problem I’ve noticed Trent with testimonials is they should be obvious at a glance what the intention behind the testimonial is, so big ass headline.
So somebody said 250 words we might show all 250 words on the screen but we’re only going to highlight the seven words this is the adobe outsourcing thing was the most scary to me going in and it was the easiest thing going out and that’s the big gigantic headline. That’s the thing you highlight, that’s the thing you talk about.
I would also do the following in the introduction; create a commitment frame. I would say I’m going to show you something today that you might not have any experience with and you might be scared to wonder if you can do that. And I’m going to talk to you about delegating it. So are you okay with the idea that if I show you how to do a business that runs on other people and you don’t have to do much to it even if you have no experience with it? Are you okay with considering it in being open to that even if it makes you a little nervous?
Will you promise me that you’ll at least give it a try and then see for yourself as opposed to be boogey man you know monster under the bed afraid to not even do that. If I give you an option that you feel comfortable moving forward with, will you promise me that you will move forward with this and start this even if it is unfamiliar and a little uncomfortable to you, do we have a deal on that?
And so we will get everybody in the first 5 minutes trying to agree that yeah I’ll try out this scary thing that I don’t really know about as long as I feel comfortable that you’ve guided me through the process appropriately. So, when it comes time to close that person is going to immediately still have that reflex, “Oh my God I don’t know if I could do this because I’ve never outsourced or because I’m afraid of my hire the wrong VA” and then immediately when that thought kicks, the other thought will think well, “I told Trent I would, I gave him my word” and most good honest people don’t want to go against that word nor should they because this is not a real scary thing. It’s only imaginatively scary. But you know a lot of imagination kills a lot of sales.
Trent: Absolutely! This is gold.
Jason: All the big things that I would look at the only other thing I would consider doing is get your last webinar transcribed and then go through and highlight it and look at how many times that you get to do a commitment question. So these are eliciting a yes. So that makes sense to you doesn’t? It is an example of yes or does that ring through with you. That’s an example of yes. Or tell me how does that sit with you? Does that look like something that you can move forward with all of those or are designed to elicit yeses and more important to me than the yes even they are conversational in tone not a lecture or a presentation but a conversation the number one effective thing that we can do in webinars that most people don’t is, we can be conversational even in Evergreen webinars because people when they watch a video on YouTube, they know it’s not a conversation they could be comments underneath of it right.
And if they watch video sales letters online for advertisements if somebody says, “Hey, does that sit well with you let me know your thoughts on that” That’s pandering, it’s like, “Hey, you’re a jerk” You record those videos 6 years ago. Of course you’re not going to be listening to me right. But even at the webinars prerecorded if that’s under the frame of come to this webinar event at this event, we’re going to be talking about these things right. And you have this conversation we say, let me ask you this question. “If this and this were to happen to you what do you think your response would be?” Well having worked with a lot of people I could tell you it’s probably one of these three things. It’s either this, this or this now these three things which one sounds like you? Tell me, go ahead and tell me in the chat right now. Even if there’s nobody there, we want to create a conversational tone not a presentational tone.
So by analyzing the transcript and highlighting how many times do I ask questions? How many times we do our interactivity? How many times do I frame it as I wouldn’t that be wonderful? Don’t you agree that this is something you should be doing or any other type of yes question?
What I find with 90% of the people we work with Trent is because it’s not natural, they don’t get enough yeses. My goal is to get 50-100 yeses bare minimum in a webinar presentation.
I’ll settle for 50, I like 100 better but my goal is to do it in such a way that it is natural. You know when somebody says like, “Hey, who here wants to make more money” at a seminar we all roll our eyes. We’re like a guy. One of these guys that still works by the way as annoying as it is because it’s very effective from a commitment standpoint but if you say something along the lines would it been wonderful if a little bit more money shut up in your life a little bit more. It’ll be great wouldn’t it? We just got two yeses there and nobody’s even aware of it. We’re creating a conversation and that’s one of most powerful things that I think is under-utilized in a webinar setting. And I wouldn’t give you any more information than that Trent because I don’t want to overwhelm you.
Trent: Actually I was feeling really good about the yeses because I actually put slides in and I do the comment thing a lot really but I don’t do it 50 times.
Jason: Even if you do it well which is rarer and I trust you that you do, it’s still enlightening to highlight and count exactly how many times you do because most of us who even when we do a well we don’t realize how little we actually do it compared to how much we can. But what I instruct people to do and anybody listening to this because this is not natural puts put on your slides like when we create webinars for clients, we will literally write it on their slide the tie downs or if they think that’s a little funky which it’s not.
We will make that slide where we ask for a commitment a different background color than every other slide that we have on our deck. So maybe red is always the one we tie down or maybe blue is or green or whatever the case may be you know and then then we want to talk with our people not talk at them so that that is just really interesting just to be able to count. And it becomes second nature after a while when you realize like, “Oh man I could be having a conversation here” or even if hey if I were reframe anything to be more conversational; what would that look like as opposed to just talking to them?
Trent: So let’s go back to the conditional guarantee for a minute, so the with my product one of the conditional guarantees I thought about doing and actually I actually did it on the entire product in the 30 day guarantee for a while but then I simplified it just to pay you want your money back, I’ll give you your money back.
The conditional guarantee was if you show me like one of the big value propositions is we’re going to enable you to send over 100 miles a week to prospective suppliers because there’s all this labor that’s involved in that and without VA’s and the systems like there’s just no way someone could do all the research necessary to be able to send 100 emails a week but they need to send that money to give them just self their the chance to succeed because the rejection gets really high from suppliers
So if the conditional guarantee was, “Hey, if you can show me in your sent bin that you’ve sent you know a thousand emails or 500 hundred is some number of emails and not nothing in terms of response you haven’t learned any accounts then you know up to 90 days later I give all your money back and I do this and I’d cover the cost of your VA.
Jason: There’s a significant guarantee, negative fortunately it’s a clever guarantee but there is one big problem with it. The only way I would do a guarantee and that’s why there’s so much art to this Trent is why I love this so much the only way to do a guarantee like that is that by said, “In the course we tell you exactly how many emails you should send down and it’s automated and it’s pretty easy to do but there’s a certain threshold you have to send out and here’s the deal I am so confident that if you hit that threshold and you don’t get this result then not only will I refund your money back but I’ll also give you an extra $400 for your efforts or something like that right” So you get double your money back but notice I didn’t say the number of e-mails because unfortunately if we say a thousand or even one hundred e-mails the prospect in their mind gets very scared. So we’ve literally created an objection out of thin air in that scenario. So now we have to balance how comfortable do we fill up securing that piece of information versus just not using the webinar and are there are the guarantee close at all and I don’t know on an answer like that but that’s the only way that I would use that, I would I would say listen there’s a certain number of emails and you can reach them very easily if you follow our process and it’s automated as long as you hit that threshold you don’t accomplish X, Y and Z then you will get this on top of your money back.
That’s like the framework behind that and that could work. I mean the reality is as we always we always ask this question; are we asking too much is this unrealistic what we’re asking for? And I don’t think it is because they’re supposed to hit that and not the other thing is context which a lot of people don’t realize this trend but it’s like until somebody spent money with you, they have an identity as not your customer but as somebody who might be your customer and they look at you differently within that identity right?
But once they pay you money they have a whole different relationship with you. So they look at you differently a lot of this is confirmation bias. What they’ll say as well, “He must be an authority” How do I know that? Because I paid him money so therefore he must be authority because he’s an authority that I pay money to. I will listen to him and now some may feel good about sending a thousand e-mails because I like well that’s what Trent says to do. I’m going to do it. But before they give you money and you say hey send a thousand e-mails I say whoa google over here who’s also in my inbox who I haven’t spent money with yet says I only need to send one e-mail and I don’t know what to do so therefore I’m not going to do anything and nobody wins in that scenario.
So that’ll be the only way I would consider doing something like that but even then $400 product, my gut says just that just two dimensionalize to guarantee just make it a no questions asked money back guarantee romancing that stone.
Trent: I was thinking if I was to test doing a $2500
Jason: If you were to test doing your $2500 product, absolutely in that particular case, I would look at a way and we here’s how we structure these guarantees not you know it’s a tough conversation that I have with people when I talk about this Trent because there’s a lot of little nuance to this so it’s very hard I’ve noticed for people to duplicate this without putting in some serious effort but here’s our sweet spot. We want to have some people qualify for that guarantee.
Here’s why there’s two major reasons why the first reason why is we don’t want to be feeling— we want our audience to feel like it’s a gimmick because there’s a lot of better than money back guarantees out there that are just passes. They’re just made to be manipulative to get people to pay money but they’re totally unobtainable. And audiences can smell those or be off put. So a double your money back guarantee might actually cost sales not help sales if they think you’re doing it just to purely manipulate them which a lot of people do that it’s a mistake.
The other way though is just as bad when you make it too convoluted too complicated or you make it too scary and then people are like oh I was going to buy one. I’m not going to buy anymore. So we have to ride that wave of being right in the middle so our goal is always this, “We say this guarantee has got to increase conversion a significant amount. But we will plan on spending this much extra in refund guarantees per client that we get right now” Right. So we had a double your money back guarantee you a $3500 products and over the lifetime of that product we probably sold thousands of that product right. And we had nine people qualify for a guarantee which is essentially a $25,000 guarantee.
So, they paid $3500 and then some of them we’d end up paying up to $25000 back to account for all their cost, reimburse them for their time buy the course back from them because it wasn’t even our course. We structured this guarantee for an affiliate product above and beyond the vendor’s guarantee. So we had nine people that qualified for $25000 guarantee up to it wasn’t even total that but if you just do the math on that I don’t know what that is but it’s like a quarter million dollars. Right. But I swear I know this for a fact that we generated at least $3m more in sales because of that guarantee and that’s just on the front end. Some of those people went on to buy other products from us.
So we were very happy to be able to put a situation in and that’s just a direct tangibles; here’s the real reason we do these guarantees Trent is just like anybody who’s smart, we want as many of our customers to succeed as possible.
That just means more testimonials for me to use, more word of mouth, more ways to consolidate the marketplace because people will talk to you just got results that nobody can match. And if I got results nobody that could match, I can make bolder promises and bolder guarantees. So but unfortunately a majority of the responsibility of success doesn’t rely on the course seller it relies on the person purchasing the course and a majority of the reason people now succeed with courses is because they don’t start. And so if we can light a fire up under them and give them a target to shoot or we’re essentially giving them a goal setting course built in automatically into our product.
And so if this would help in this particular case, I believe it would enable your audience to get a bigger benefit which would be more beneficial for you. But you’ve got to be OK with a guarantee where you say well if 5% of people qualify for this guarantee does the math work out in my favor still. And that’s why oftentimes a lot of my clients try those guys screw this double your money back guarantee others focus on beefing up the offer and that’s a perfectly valid way of going about it but it’s just something to start speculating on.
Trent: All right. In due to a time constraints you’re going to have to wrap here but I want to thank you very much Jason for making some time and coming and sharing what I consider to be a truck load of value and I took notes like mad and I hope the audience did as well. For people who want to get more of your stuff more of you, hire you, buy whatever it is that you sell, where do they go?
Jason: Yeah so the best thing to do is just go to Amazon and buy the book ‘One Too Many’ Not only will that tell you some of the tactical stuff that we didn’t talk about today and more on the stuff we did talk about but that’s like the perfect entry point into a scene if you like that, what else you got.
Trent: Okay well, it’s been a pleasure to have you on the show, thank you so much for making the time.
Jason: It’s been a pleasure for me as well Trent, thank you.